Remember when no one wanted mounts?

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

I refused to duel. I refused to join a raid/group to help someone kill a mob. I refused to reply to a whisper asking for an item. A refused to give someone gold. Things like that.

 

Believe it or not, the person getting harassed isn't always the one to blame. Sometimes, an Internet Karen is having a bad day and decides to take it out on you. They don't need more of a reason than that.

 

As I said before: ego.

 

Hope this answers your questions. 🙂

Edited June 7, 2021 by Ardenwolfe.8590

[Razor.6392]

4 minutes ago, Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

I refused to duel. I refuse to join a raid to help someone kill a mob. I refused to join a group. A refused to give someone gold.

 

Believe it or not, the person getting harassed isn't always the one to blame. Sometimes, an Internet Karen is having a bad day and decides to take it out on you. They don't need more of a reason than that.

 

As I said before: ego.

 

Hope this answers your questions. 🙂

Really unlucky there pal. 9 years I've never had anything remotely similar happen to me, even in PVP where things do get toxic and I even sometimes talked smack lol.

 

I'm not denying it can happen, but I simply fail to see how dueling would make these issues scale up in toxicity. A block is a block, it removes any interaction from that person towards you. Checking "Refuse all duel requests" also avoids any further interaction from ANYONE at all for an unlimited amount of time.

 

All I see here is a non-reason that has even less merit than people saying that dueling in open world breaks their immersion lmao.

 

Edit: I don't mind if you keep adding 'confused' to my posts. Trust me, it won't make me seek counseling.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Razor.6392

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

I just have that winning personality, I suppose. 😃 Either way, I'm not opposed to duels if the community wants it, but I can see it being an issue in certain areas. Keep in mind, the PvP/dueling community is small compared to the PvE/casual one.

 

And, this is my humble opinion, the PvP/Dueling community has something of a salty reputation.

 

I'll leave it at that.

[Zephire.8049]

Barring an engine change, I doubt they'd add it even if there was a lot of demand for it. On open world PvE maps, it's coded in such a way were all players are friendly or all players are hostile (with a handful of gimmicky exceptions that are prone to bug out)—there is no way to pick and choose who's friendly or hostile. This has origins in how GW2 was founded on the idea that other players should never be seen as the enemy and player griefing should not be encouraged by putting systems in unless it's explicitly for PvP/WvW.

 

If the code is old enough and baked in enough, it would be a massive undertaking for something that has multiple workarounds already.

 

If you want duels, there's guild halls, WvW (5 maps, including Obsidian Sanctum), PvP, the WvW lounge, Edge of the Mists, and I know I'm missing some. Yes it's a bit more effort than just right-clicking a player and selecting duel, but it means that if you care so much about it and the other person does to, you're perfectly happy to select what skill balance to use (PvE, WvW, or PvP) and where to go. At the same time, people who have no interest in dueling aren't harassed over it.

 

Also mounts could be monetized and Anet had previously stated they would only do mounts at all if they could be done in a way where it wasn't just a graphical speed boost. I don't see how dueling could be monetized unless it's to buy spots in tournaments and/or obnoxious graphics and/or a predatory battlepass.

 

And given the PvP population in the game is so small, it's very unlikely that they'd start the massive undertaking of adding duels to the open world when it wouldn't even break even. A specific map or arena I could understand testing out, but not the open world.

[mindcircus.1506]

1 hour ago, Razor.6392 said:

ANet laughed at you lot, then introduced mounts anyway. Now all of you are buying the newest mount skins on release.

 

So hopefully for the newest expansion, dueling will make an appearance. If it did, people would just accept it over time anyway and the loudest voices would eventually start enjoying it too 🙂

 

BRING DUELING AND GUILD WARS ALREADY ANET, IT'S BEEN TOO kitten LONG

 

Implementing Duels in Open World on PvE maps would force the engine to apply the existing PvE ruleset/gearing to the Duel. This cannot be changed according to the developers. This is why WvW guilds do not often practice in Guild Halls, as they apply the PvE ruleset and not the WvW or sPvP ones. The PvE ruleset is poorly balanced for competitive activity by design.

 

The fact you would ignore this fact and say "because mounts" says more about your lack of understanding of this game than it does about any form of prejudice or "fear".

 

Rewriting the engine to accommodate a niche activity like Dueling when there are plenty of properly balanced ways to do so (wvw, spvp hotjoins, spvp ffa arena, the newly changed arena in EotM) doesn't make good sense.

[Razor.6392]

18 minutes ago, Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

I just have that winning personality, I suppose. 😃 Either way, I'm not opposed to duels if the community wants it, but I can see it being an issue in certain areas. Keep in mind, the PvP/dueling community is small compared to the PvE/casual one.

 

And, this is my humble opinion, the PvP/Dueling community has something of a salty reputation.

 

I'll leave it at that.

I respect that.

 

3 minutes ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

 

Implementing Duels in Open World on PvE maps would force the engine to apply the existing PvE ruleset/gearing to the Duel. This cannot be changed according to the developers. This is why WvW guilds do not often practice in Guild Halls, as they apply the PvE ruleset and not the WvW or sPvP ones. The PvE ruleset is poorly balanced for competitive activity by design.

 

The fact you would ignore this fact and say "because mounts" says more about your lack of understanding of this game than it does about any form of prejudice or "fear".

 

Rewriting the engine to accommodate a niche activity like Dueling when there are plenty of properly balanced ways to do so (wvw, spvp hotjoins, spvp ffa arena, the newly changed arena in EotM) doesn't make good sense.

Finally, a really good answer that actually challenges my point without resorting to what ifs and speculation.

 

I didn't think of the technical limitation behind the PVE PVP WVW skill split at all. Dueling in pve stats with the old nuke values would hardly be fun, unless they somehow make you choose a template beforehand - but that seems like too much work already.

 

"The fact you would ignore this" It's kinda easy to ignore when in all these years, and even in this thread, I've never seen anyone mention what you've said here. It's been mostly griefing and immersion complaints all this time.

[DeanBB.4268]

Well, if you had bothered looking at the previous 279+/- pages of posts prior to making a new post, you'd have known.

[mindcircus.1506]

2 minutes ago, Razor.6392 said:

"The fact you would ignore this" It's kinda easy to ignore when in all these years, and even in this thread, I've never seen anyone mention what you've said here. It's been mostly griefing and immersion complaints all this time.

The reaction from others to your post is largely a function of the tone you have used in your OP and in your other responses in this thread.
You started with an aggressive tone ("remember how totally WRONG you all were?... you are WRONG about this too!") and used the same faulty logic that people have used to justify requests for other niche content like Player Housing, or Underwater combat reworks.

 

If you wanted factual discussion you may have tried a different approach in your OP. As it stands you started your argument without facts and got zero in return.
No surprise there.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Not to mention that if OP had looked at the previous threads on this topic, they would have found the Dev post stating the reasons (technical and otherwise) why Open World PvP/Dueling would not be forthcoming any time in the foreseeable future.

[circuitnerd.5863]

Actually people had been asking for mounts forever but it seemed very unlikely it would happen given waypoints. Anet's solution was to eventually make larger maps with very few waypoints. 

[Danikat.8537]

If you want to duel another player there are already several options available.

 

• PvP has customs arenas (which can be set to have 1 player on each team) and the free for all arena in the Heart of the Mists.
• WvW has the Mists Arena in the Edge of the Mists, an equivalent in the Armistice Bastion (does require a pass from the gem store) and the large open area in the Obsidian Sanctum (which requires you to be on opposing teams).
• PvE has Guild Arenas in guild halls.

 

You just need to decide which version is best for you. I suppose the major concerns would be which ones are most convenient, how many people you want on each side and whether you want to use PvP or PvE builds.

 

Edit: the one in the Heart of the Mists appears to be quite popular, I had a look while I was passing through and there's several groups fighting in there, including a few pairs of players who appear to be duelling each other.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Danikat.8537

[kharmin.7683]

Adding mounts to a game that didn't have them?  Sure

Adding dueling to a game that already has it?  um.... why?

[Sugar Min.5834]

So troll ganking and spawn camp ganking in WvW is not enough? Even with four large maps there? Now you want ganking in PvE too? No.

[mindcircus.1506]

50 minutes ago, Mil.3562 said:

So troll ganking and spawn camp ganking in WvW is not enough? Even with four large maps there? Now you want ganking in PvE too? No.

That wasnt what the OP was asking for at all.

[Zavijah.2695]

5 hours ago, maddoctor.2738 said:

Mounts are well monetized. I guess duels can be as well? Costs 100 gems to send a duel request, or a 1000 gemstore item that allows multiple uses. What about dueling skins though? Maybe some new finishers or pose animations (well monetized of course).

Agreed. 

Don't go talking about how 'no one' wanted mounts but that we all pay for new skins on release now, without replicating the same set of circumstances for your duelling. 

Wanna duel? Pay Gems. 

At any rate, your post is reaching, and not even remotely relevant. 

[Obtena.7952]

Duels = low value addition to the game. Unless it's heavily monetized but even then, that's lots opportunity to actually put something in many more people woudl want. 

[Poormany.4507]

6 hours ago, Razor.6392 said:

"The fact you would ignore this" It's kinda easy to ignore when in all these years, and even in this thread, I've never seen anyone mention what you've said here. It's been mostly griefing and immersion complaints all this time.

I don't get why the obvious griefing that would come with open world dueling is not seen as a problem. Posts are being made almost daily about mesmer portal griefers in metas who have been getting away with it for months or years and very little's been done about issues such as that, despite suggestions similar to the OP's for dueling being suggested by players, so I would be really skeptical that spam duel requests/open world PvP harassment would be be dealt with properly/effectively.

 

I just don't think it is worth disrupting the gameplay of a large segment of the community for a niche activity targeted for a small percentage of players (who already have easily accessible dueling opportunities in WvW or PvP).

Edited June 8, 2021 by Poormany.4507

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Using 'PvP' generally:

 

Duels should only be requestable in PvP areas, and have some mechanic like 'followers' where you can send a duel request and the opposing party can just ignore it indefinitely.  

 

Can of worms but, mounts should really be removed from all PvP content.  I don't even know if they are in sPvP (I hope not) but they make WvW a bit of a joke with the provided mobility and CC immunity.  

 

EDIT: I also remember when people were vehemently against mounts because they didn't want GW2 to 'become WoW'.  Mostly years ago on the old forums that are long gone so hard to prove now, but mounts were definitely not wanted by a large section of the playerbase.  

Edited June 8, 2021 by Gotejjeken.1267

[voltaicbore.8012]

8 hours ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I have to back up the poster you are answering to.

 

I don't know a single person who did not want mounts and i am playing since GW1 just to clarify the "you must be new".

Beside that, i know  a bunch of people who hates the idea of dueling.

But i have a tip for you. There are symbols on top of the screen. One of them is sending you to the PvP section.

If you spend some time there you get familiar enough to find a mode called SPvP.

Those people over there figured out how to duell. I'm sure the nice peeps over there can help you further with how to duell in GW2

 

I must confess that I was one of the people who didn't want mounts. I imagined they'd be like mounts from every other game I've seen, which are all just reskins of the same mount, and the weird variety of mount skins (particularly in SWTOR, which I played a lot before abandoning it for GW2) was the equivalent of the gross infusion vomit we see in various gathering places here. In short, I thought they'd turn out to be unnecessary eyesores.

 

ANet really hit a home run with mounts, and I was very pleasantly surprised. I have no trouble at all admitting I was totally wrong to assume they'd turn out poorly.

 

As for dueling, I don't particularly want to see it added, but (as hard as it is to imagine) ANet might prove me wrong here too. So long as we get that auto-decline checkbox people have been mentioning, I think I wouldn't mind it too much.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

37 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Using 'PvP' generally:

 

Duels should only be requestable in PvP areas, and have some mechanic like 'followers' where you can send a duel request and the opposing party can just ignore it indefinitely.  

 

Can of worms but, mounts should really be removed from all PvP content.  I don't even know if they are in sPvP (I hope not) but they make WvW a bit of a joke with the provided mobility and CC immunity.  

 

EDIT: I also remember when people were vehemently against mounts because they didn't want GW2 to 'become WoW'.  Mostly years ago on the old forums that are long gone so hard to prove now, but mounts were definitely not wanted by a large section of the playerbase.  

Easy to prove.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/

The 'search' feature even works. 

(Though, a large section of the playerbase did want Mounts, as well. [Else there would not have been so many threads about it?])

[Donari.5237]

14 minutes ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

As for dueling, I don't particularly want to see it added, but (as hard as it is to imagine) ANet might prove me wrong here too. So long as we get that auto-decline checkbox people have been mentioning, I think I wouldn't mind it too much.

I am with you on that -- but.  BUT.  Not only must there be auto-decline, there must also be a way to render duelists and their effects invisible to non-duelists who don't wish to see them.  Because in every game I've played with open world dueling, the duelists have descended on crafting stations, npc quest turn in locations, banks, anywhere people like to hang out not fighting stuff, in order to spam their duel pixel explosions all over the place.  And if, say, rp'ers head off to a quiet area in an open map somewhere, griefers will come fight duels on top of the rp.  Not speculation, long experience.

 

*turns to the OP* So if you want to be able to duel, and ANet does find a way to make it fun and technically viable with their engine, then please accept that your duel and your requests to duel should be utterly invisible to non-participants. ... hmm ... maybe they could implement some sort of phase shift where you and your opponent just fall into an instance for the duration of the duel and anyone wanting to observe can interact with the little mote left behind to join.  Though of course then you'd lose your place on the map you had been in, if it's full of people waiting for a big event.  And there'd be a pile of annoying motes.  ... needs more thought.

[voltaicbore.8012]

21 minutes ago, Donari.5237 said:

Not only must there be auto-decline, there must also be a way to render duelists and their effects invisible to non-duelists who don't wish to see them.  Because in every game I've played with open world dueling, the duelists have descended on crafting stations, npc quest turn in locations, banks, anywhere people like to hang out not fighting stuff, in order to spam their duel pixel explosions all over the place.  And if, say, rp'ers head off to a quiet area in an open map somewhere, griefers will come fight duels on top of the rp.  Not speculation, long experience.

I forgot about that aspect (having duelists just spamming their visual and auditory noise, even if they're not dueling you). I, too, have seen that happen plenty of times in other games, and it would be a particular shame to see that behavior enabled in GW2.

[Thornwolf.9721]

9 hours ago, Kurrilino.2706 said:

 

I have to back up the poster you are answering to.

 

I don't know a single person who did not want mounts and i am playing since GW1 just to clarify the "you must be new".

Beside that, i know  a bunch of people who hates the idea of dueling.

But i have a tip for you. There are symbols on top of the screen. One of them is sending you to the PvP section.

If you spend some time there you get familiar enough to find a mode called SPvP.

Those people over there figured out how to duell. I'm sure the nice peeps over there can help you further with how to duell in GW2

Im one of the ones who didn't, they're great and all but I'd never actually say they bettered the game. In some ways they did in others they made it worse; Its here so now its just time to accept it and move on. I like some of the skins so I've bought em, I wasn't hard core opposed to them I was more mad that AT THE TIME the other masteries were not even included in PoF which made them feel like a waste of time.

[Razor.6392]

53 minutes ago, Donari.5237 said:

I am with you on that -- but.  BUT.  Not only must there be auto-decline, there must also be a way to render duelists and their effects invisible to non-duelists who don't wish to see them.  Because in every game I've played with open world dueling, the duelists have descended on crafting stations, npc quest turn in locations, banks, anywhere people like to hang out not fighting stuff, in order to spam their duel pixel explosions all over the place.  And if, say, rp'ers head off to a quiet area in an open map somewhere, griefers will come fight duels on top of the rp.  Not speculation, long experience.

 

*turns to the OP* So if you want to be able to duel, and ANet does find a way to make it fun and technically viable with their engine, then please accept that your duel and your requests to duel should be utterly invisible to non-participants. ... hmm ... maybe they could implement some sort of phase shift where you and your opponent just fall into an instance for the duration of the duel and anyone wanting to observe can interact with the little mote left behind to join.  Though of course then you'd lose your place on the map you had been in, if it's full of people waiting for a big event.  And there'd be a pile of annoying motes.  ... needs more thought.

All  of that is so easy to work around though.

 

Just make it so that dueling not allowed in main cities and not allowed if a dynamic or world meta is active nearby. Also any hostile npc must be at least 500 range away from the duel.

 

Anyway, I got what I needed from the thread, I honestly did not expect to find valid reasoning outside people complaining about trolling PTSD haha.

[Arnox.5128]

I have defended dueling pretty recently here, but I will at least assent that implementing it into GW2 probably would be a lot of work. It makes sense that the engine isn't necessarily designed to facilitate it in its current state. But it certainly doesn't make it impossible. I will also agree that, like mounts, dueling needs to be implemented properly if it is to be in the game. If it's invasive to the playing experience for a lot of players, then yeah, it shouldn't be added in. But if there's tools to ignore requests along with checks to make sure duels don't get annoying for other passersby in cities with all the particle effects flying around, then I don't see any reason whatsoever why it shouldn't be added.

 

Trolls are gonna troll, regardless of whether dueling is in the game or not. Hell, I already know one way to do it that only requires a mount. That's all. Just a mount. Hell, if you were good, you could even troll just using the mail system. Even moreso if you have more than one account to completely bypass blocks. So even in the game's current state, with a lot of money and a VPN, you could theoretically drive someone away from playing GW2 just by sheer annoyance.

 

I think a good way to implement dueling (while also livening up the cities usual dead zones a little more) would be to allow dueling only in a specific area of each city. Outside of cities, dueling would be unrestricted assuming, of course, that one player doesn't block the other somehow.

 

12 hours ago, Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

"Remember when no one wanted mounts?"

Not really.

 

While I will agree that there were a lot of people at the time who did want mounts, there were also a lot of people at the time who didn't. OP isn't necessarily lying. I distinctly remember the 15-page long threads about them. Popular arguments against them included cluttering the city areas and waypoints making them entirely redundant.

 

11 hours ago, mindcircus.1506 said:

Implementing Duels in Open World on PvE maps would force the engine to apply the existing PvE ruleset/gearing to the Duel. This cannot be changed according to the developers.

 

I need to ask for a source on this. Especially since the last ANet response that was linked to me on the subject said specifically that, again, it would be a lot of work, but it absolutely was possible and could be implemented if enough people wanted it.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Arnox.5128