Should Anet completely redo the untamed from scratch?

[Xenash.1245]

I think they need to redo and refine how they feel the spec is supposed to flow so we can better test it in the next beta personally, since currently it just plays so awkwardly in my opinion. Things like Mutate Conditions just doesn't make sense to me since you can easily just go for Signet of Renewal for no stacked vulnerability and an added stun break.

 

So yeah again no redo, but just a lot more consideration on the devs part for how they want this spec to play.

[Levetty.1279]

Considering Engineer got the spec that we should have got, yes.

[Tachenon.5270]

Hammer needs to be about 20% cooler. Stinky-looking effects need to go away entirely. As in, entirely. Not even the tiniest little poof of that awful green gas or the dipped in green goo effect. What is that supposed to be, anyway? Flea dip?

 

Also not a fan of the 'unleashed' mechanic. I'd much rather have had an entirely pet-free ranger. That's right -- no pets at all! No combining with pets, no unleashing of pets, just NO pets. At all. A ranger entirely (ahem) unleashed from pets. With a line of traits that compensate for the lack thereof. A self-sufficient survivalist as at home in the wilderness as any wild creature, who has had it up to here, right here, with the formalities and constraints of civilization, who prefers to deal with problems with blunt, brute force. Bonk! Bonk! On the head! Bonk! Bonk! Or should I say, THUMP!

 

Change the name to Feral.

 

Or maybe Honey Badger.

[voltaicbore.8012]

1 hour ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

I'd much rather have had an entirely pet-free ranger.

This is what I've wanted as well.

When I first picked up this game and made a ranger, I knew it was the "pet class" and was fine with that - I've liked pet combat mechanics in many other games, and I was hoping GW2 ranger could offer something comparable.

I quickly found out pets are kittening terrible. You lose an ascended amulet's worth of stats on your character because your pet is supposed to be helping you, but we all know that isn't happening. The next stage of copium was "oh well maybe someday they'll fix pet pathing and AI! Maybe my pet here can one day hit a golem walking in a circle!" All it took was maybe a few months of playing to figure out that ANet isn't the kind of studio that improves and iterates on much. It was also apparent the dev team simply does not care much about rangers.

Soulbeast was finally the first step in the right direction for me. Rather than cling to the empty hope of improving pet AI or numbers, it felt like ANet acknowledged that's not happening. Instead, they just gave us a way to lose the active companion in exchange for getting those lost stats back. The stupid green swirl effect sucks, but it was tolerable given how much better it felt to run a soulbeast over the other ranger specs.

Untamed is a thousands steps back into the wrong direction. But honestly at this point I'm less disappointed in ANet than I am in many of my fellow rangers. ANet making a bad spec or bad patch for rangers is nothing new. However, what I can't understand is how so many people harped on about wanting to "finally get the pet-centric spec that ranger deserves." How can you possibly think that ANet would fix pets? Hasn't 10 years been enough to show you it isn't happening?

A pet-less ranger actually might have worked for EoD. After all, mechanist got a better pet, thieves got shroud and support, warrior (whose trademark was always huge weapon variety and availability) lost in-combat swap in exchange for some fun gunblade stuff... it seems like stark departures from class norms is something they were willing to do for EoD. But of course, of course ranger has to stay the course and lean harder into its core "I am the pet class" identity - while somehow ending up less impressive than core.

 

[Strider.7849]

I'm just going to post once here on my thoughts because I'm severely disappointed.

 

I main ranger, I have mained it since this games release - I have made many legendaries including a full armor set for it. I loved core and druid - but they overnerfed druid (making it really only useful as a single spot healer in raids OR some very niche builds in WvW; i.e. smallscale or immob spam) and made soulbeast the best spec for roaming in WvW and PvE content. I only played soulbeast because it was the most effective of the specs.. but I was really banking on this expansion to provide something else within ranger to love again.

 

Now, I'm trying to stay positive here and telling myself it's just the beta and things can change.. but looking at the track record/history for that - I feel they may just make it a numbers change. This spec initially excited me because I thought they intended this for WvW zerg play. MY BIGGEST ISSUE.. more then anything else the rest of the comments have already mentioned is:

 

Hammer's radius of its skills are extremely small. Sometimes I can't even hit enemies that are right in front of me.. it's infuriating how bad this weapon is. I can put up with low.. heck even if there was no damage on it. I just wish I could make an impact on the areas I hit - you know, with AoE effects. I'm not sure how this weapon will be useful in a WvW zerg fight situation when the cleave feels more like you're using a weapon skills made for a dagger.

 

The reason I wrote all this is because I'm seriously considering DROPPING my main after all these years and I don't want to be rash - I want to wait it out until the expansion drops and they hopefully fix the spec. After trying all the new elite specs (this is my personal opinion here), Untamed was the worst - not just saying that due to the fact it's my main. I just can't main a class when I only enjoy it's core/druid but only play soulbeast because it all sucks by comparison. My apologies for this rant 😞

 

I hope you guys can manage to breakthrough to Anet developers and offer them information they need to salvage or completely redesign this spec. /endrant

[Arheundel.6451]

5 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

This is what I've wanted as well.

When I first picked up this game and made a ranger, I knew it was the "pet class" and was fine with that - I've liked pet combat mechanics in many other games, and I was hoping GW2 ranger could offer something comparable.

I quickly found out pets are kittening terrible. You lose an ascended amulet's worth of stats on your character because your pet is supposed to be helping you, but we all know that isn't happening. The next stage of copium was "oh well maybe someday they'll fix pet pathing and AI! Maybe my pet here can one day hit a golem walking in a circle!" All it took was maybe a few months of playing to figure out that ANet isn't the kind of studio that improves and iterates on much. It was also apparent the dev team simply does not care much about rangers.

Soulbeast was finally the first step in the right direction for me. Rather than cling to the empty hope of improving pet AI or numbers, it felt like ANet acknowledged that's not happening. Instead, they just gave us a way to lose the active companion in exchange for getting those lost stats back. The stupid green swirl effect sucks, but it was tolerable given how much better it felt to run a soulbeast over the other ranger specs.

Untamed is a thousands steps back into the wrong direction. But honestly at this point I'm less disappointed in ANet than I am in many of my fellow rangers. ANet making a bad spec or bad patch for rangers is nothing new. However, what I can't understand is how so many people harped on about wanting to "finally get the pet-centric spec that ranger deserves." How can you possibly think that ANet would fix pets? Hasn't 10 years been enough to show you it isn't happening?

A pet-less ranger actually might have worked for EoD. After all, mechanist got a better pet, thieves got shroud and support, warrior (whose trademark was always huge weapon variety and availability) lost in-combat swap in exchange for some fun gunblade stuff... it seems like stark departures from class norms is something they were willing to do for EoD. But of course, of course ranger has to stay the course and lean harder into its core "I am the pet class" identity - while somehow ending up less impressive than core.

 

Those asking for pet centric spec weren't really "rangers"..they were mostly PvErs wishing to roleplay like a pokemon trainer with the pets...sad as it sounds that's their main reason for wishing for a pet centric elite

[Padra.1678]

Unfortunately my friend Anet has already given birth and now that the baby is here we cant just shove it right back on up into the EOD specialization crafting hole. We are going to need to work with what we got. I do not think its all doom and gloom though. I think they are on the way to something cool and this was just a beta. I do expect we will see some changes after this.

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Padra.1678

[Caid.4932]

I think most of my serious concerns about the spec are pet related. Everything else feels like it could be fun and competitive without huge changes. I didn't like the unleashed mechanic in general but not liking the unleashed hammer skills is probably the primary reason for it. Having an extra weapon / pet swap just pushed it a tiny bit towards a piano play style that i dont love at the best of times but not every spec is always going to appeal to me, which is fine.

There were parts of it i liked a lot. Quickness on cc and ferocious symbiosis were quite fun. I quite liked how it worked with Healing Spring and Spike Trap and the shadowstep is a nice utility to have.

Theres the kernel of a fun class there despite the pet

Edited October 31, 2021 by Caid.4932

[Kilrik.6320]

Redo is like asking to win the lottery.  Dreaming in that world, I would like to see what they set out to do reimagined for sure.  I've posted in a couple other threads my problems with the spec and what I think they could do to fix it.  Some of my suggestions are probably easier than others code-wise, but since this is beta and since once again ranger is presented lastly like druid, any and all revamps and changes will be spread out over the year(s).  I will say IMO that given the  sorry state of the spec, I suppose we won't have to worry about there being too many nerfs for a while, and over time those most persistent in trying to get the square wheels to roll, might stumble upon a moderately working Frankenstein's monster build. 🙂

 

Edited October 31, 2021 by Kilrik.6320
grammar

[Cufufalating.8479]

They won't re-do it but I still voted for that given my dislike for it.

 

I'm not a very pet-ish player anyway so a pet spec was never going to be my thing, but even so I was hoping for a really buffed up pet simular to what the mech is. What we got was a pet that is virtually unchanged. I'm not sure I even consider this a pet spec, frankly. It's a hammer spec, and not a very good one. 

[TheAgedGnome.7520]

For me, Untamed became better and better the more I played, and so I see as needing improvements, not redo.

Not sure how many who tried it stuck with the default beta gear, but if they did I think that contributed a lot to the negative perception of the elite. 

[Lazze.9870]

On 10/30/2021 at 3:40 AM, Mell.4873 said:

Druid is fine,

 

Druid is not "fine". A support elite spec that rarely see any use as a support in 2 out of 3 game modes is not fine. In the meantime they keep buffing scrapper to make it fit into PvE, despite it being the king of supports in WvW.

As for the question. Some adjustments will make the spec good enough for what it can do. The problem is, it won't be good at the thing Anet wanted it to be good at.

But you know, if a complete redo was even on the table I'd take a petless warden ranger. Would have made the bruiser role actually doable in large scale wvw as well.

Edited November 1, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[anonei.2714]

Wrong thread, removing my comment.

Edited October 31, 2021 by anonei.2714

[Dante.1508]

On 10/31/2021 at 11:53 PM, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Druid is not "fine". A support elite spec that rarely see any use as a support in 2 out of 3 game modes is not fine. In the meantime they keep buffing scrapper to make it fit into PvE, despite it being the king of supports in WvW.

As for the question. Some adjustments will make the spec good enough for what it can do. The problem is, it won't be good at the thing Anet wanted it to be good at.

But you know, if a complete redo was even on the table I'd take a petless warden ranger. Would have made the bruiser role actually doable in large scale wvw as well.

I agree Druid is niche and very pointless outside of the occasional raids.. How many PVE druids do you see.. I see none, literally zero ever..

Druid was a huge let down to most ranger players and i feel untamed will be almost as bad.. Anet just cannot seem to understand ranged is more fun to play in their horrible cc game environment and pets are dragging the class down since release..

[conquistator.6549]

Since there's quite considerable change to the untamed and now that the beta 4 event is out, I add a second poll on what's the community's opinion of the untamed after the change.

[Arheundel.6451]

1 hour ago, conquistator.6549 said:

Since there's quite considerable change to the untamed and now that the beta 4 event is out, I add a second poll on what's the community's opinion of the untamed after the change.

No need...Untamed is literally a core ranger 1.5 that most will hate as it introduces a layer of complexity with pet management, with not many benefits attached to it. I personally love hammer as weapon and will build a legendary around it, then the unleashed pet skills do not offer much in terms of self-sustain at least not as far as I tested.

The sustain seems lower than core ranger but again, I need more testing, so far I give Untamed a 6 out of 10 where SB is 9/10 ( in WvW) and 5/10 in PvP, core ranger is 6/10 both in PvP and WvW

Edited December 3, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Arheundel.6451]

On 10/31/2021 at 1:53 PM, Lazze.9870 said:

 

Druid is not "fine". A support elite spec that rarely see any use as a support in 2 out of 3 game modes is not fine. In the meantime they keep buffing scrapper to make it fit into PvE, despite it being the king of supports in WvW.

As for the question. Some adjustments will make the spec good enough for what it can do. The problem is, it won't be good at the thing Anet wanted it to be good at.

But you know, if a complete redo was even on the table I'd take a petless warden ranger. Would have made the bruiser role actually doable in large scale wvw as well.

Scrapper is king everywhere, it has sustain and dmg for days both in PvP and in WvW...well ofc in the latter the sustain will be always 10x more but yeah...druid barely keeps up in WvW while it's a complete joke in PvP, due to the 20s CD on celestial form....

[conquistator.6549]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

No need...Untamed is literally a core ranger 1.5 that most will hate as it introduces a layer of complexity with pet management, with not many benefits attached to it. I personally love hammer as weapon and will build a legendary around it, then the unleashed pet skills do not offer much in terms of self-sustain at least not as far as I tested.

The sustain seems lower than core ranger but again, I need more testing, so far I give Untamed a 6 out of 10 where SB is 9/10 ( in WvW) and 5/10 in PvP, core ranger is 6/10 both in PvP and WvW

 

Yeah I totally agree, I just want to know if I'm biased or not. The first poll sort of went very lopsided but on point in terms of how the spec is.

[Substance E.4852]

>Should Anet completely redo the untamed from scratch?

In a perfect world?

Yes

In a world where such a decision would mean we get a whole new spec with only maybe 1-2 months of design time and no test betas?

No, not really

I'm not confident that we can pester them into giving us the Scrapper treatment after launch if it still sucks, but I'm even less confident that they can not only give us an entirely new spec before February, but that it will be any better

All the current form of the spec needs to get a us a slot in wvw squads is enough damage on hammer to make us competitive with hammer revs and a way to either keep the pet alive or convert it into some kind of invulnerable boon spirit or w/e

I don't know, make it so that when the player is unleashed, rather than the pet going full manual mode, it turns into a low/no damage npc that gives a buff that correlates to it's soulbeast archetype while gaining the same -90% damage while untargeted mod pets get in PvE

 

[BadSanta.6527]

if that possible then yes . honstly anet need to hire someone else to work on the ranger elite , why the are so obssese with pet being op 

i never get it 

[anduriell.6280]

I can not vote in the second pole, you can do it once once indepently of the amount of different poles. I would not take latest results about Beta 4 seriously. 

The elite still feels extremely underwhelming in WvW/PvP, and that was their main focus as "bruiser" and "frontliner". 

Pets are still a liability, they die extremely fast. 

The elite does not provide any group utility for team fights.

It does not have any active deffenses - better survival than core

Extrangely it feels even less mobile than Core. 

It does less damage than core while at the same time has less selfsustain than core. 

Aside from that every single skill looks so boring and bland. I am a big fan of subtle effects but Untamed has none. Except the green goo swapping. 

I would say this elite is DoA. I foresee peepos will try it for some weeks, discover the elite is just a core+ with extra cluncky and go back to play Druid/Soulbeast/Core. In competitive modes definitely it has no place. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by anduriell.6280

[Kodama.6453]

35 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

has less selfsustain than core. 

Please elaborate. I don't see how this can be the case.

Untamed has literally all the sustain options core ranger has, since it is not giving up anything currently (unlike other elite specs, it doesn't have any trade off whatsoever).

And it adds more sustain options like a trait which turns 10% of all your strike damage into healing and adding barrier to cantrips.

So please explain why you think that this spec has less self sustain than core.

[Arheundel.6451]

37 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Please elaborate. I don't see how this can be the case.

Untamed has literally all the sustain options core ranger has, since it is not giving up anything currently (unlike other elite specs, it doesn't have any trade off whatsoever).

And it adds more sustain options like a trait which turns 10% of all your strike damage into healing and adding barrier to cantrips.

So please explain why you think that this spec has less self sustain than core.

This talk of "tradeoff" has become obnoxious and based more on semantics than concrete facts, there is no tradeoff if the element removed is not of the same quality of added one.

Now for the actual, unquestionable facts:

1) Core ranger can effectively and easily compete with soulbeast and druid , actually surpassing them 1v1 in few instances now

2) Core engi CANNOT even start to dream competing with Holosmith, Scrapper or even Machinist, the loss of the elite F5 is a laughable argument when compared to what is gained with Holosmith and Scrapper and Machinist, basically every elite for engineer..was a better core engi

3) Core ranger can still easily fight and outskill an Untamed at equall starting level so.....Untamed is not a better version of core ranger despite of what you're assuming and I'd let you know that Untamed is "tolerable" now because it does not subtract much from core ranger for what little it offers, and if you are still expecting a trade off....well Soulbeast and Druid both acquire powerful mechanics to compensate for the "tradeoffs" instead Untamed is barelly adding a couple nice tricks like aoe reflect and 2-3 boon removes skill, but it is acceptable because so far it's just a variant of core ranger.

You want tradeoffs?...oh boy...we need first to crank up the buff level then for Untamed to be worth playing 

P.S before you even think of coming back with this talk of "tradeoff" ...try your best to find something comparable to Holo forge and Function Gyro in the core trait line...thank you bye bye

Edited December 9, 2021 by Arheundel.6451

[Kodama.6453]

3 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

This talk of "tradeoff" has become obnoxious and based more on semantics than concrete facts, there is no tradeoff if the element removed is not of the same quality of added one.

Now for the actual, unquestionable facts:

1) Core ranger can effectively and easily compete with soulbeast and druid , actually surpassing them 1v1 in few instances now

2) Core engi CANNOT even start to dream competing with Holosmith, Scrapper or even Machinist, the loss of the elite F5 is a laughable argument when compared to what is gained with Holosmith and Scrapper and Machinist, basically every elite for engineer..was a better core engi

3) Core ranger can still easily fight and outskill an Untamed at equall starting level so.....Untamed is not a better version of core ranger despite of what you're assuming and I'd let you know that Untamed is "tolerable" now because it does not subtract much from core ranger for what little it offers, and if you are still expecting a trade off....well Soulbeast and Druid both acquire powerful mechanics to compensate for the "tradeoffs" instead Untamed is barelly adding a couple nice tricks like aoe reflect and 2-3 boon removes skill, but it is acceptable because so far it's just a variant of core ranger.

You want tradeoffs?...oh boy...we need first to crank up the buff level then for Untamed to be worth playing 

P.S before you even think of coming back with this talk of "tradeoff" ...try your best to find something comparable to Holo forge and Function Gyro in the core trait line...thank you bye bye

You completely missed the point. What I said there was not "untamed need a trade off installed". I mentioned the lack of a trade off as a contributing factor that saying "having less self sustain than core" makes no sense.

Untamed is not giving away anything from the core, it just adds it's own stuff on top of it, including sustain options like the 2 traits I mentioned (all strike damage converted into healing, barrier on cantrip usage).

I want an explanation how untamed has less self sustain than core when it literally has all the stuff available that core also has, but adds more stuff for self sustain. It makes no logical sense for me how someone came to that conclusion. Please try to answer my actual question instead of running off talking about how untamed doesn't need a trade off when that was not the point I made in the first place. My point is that untamed does have more self sustain than core, inevitably.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[SoulGuardian.6203]

Just my own personal oppinion. 

I don't like anything about Untamed. 

Maybe just the name itself.

 

I don't like ranger using hammer.

I don't like the vile skin textures around it and pet.

I don't like that broccoli spawn.

... and what is that back and forth energy thingy that does absolutely nothing whatsoever? 

 

Redo.

Just give Rangers a Sniper Rifle already.

It's in its name for peaks sake.