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I don't want to be rude, but the writing...


Greencactaur.4396

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I'm not trying to be rude towards the developers or designers, I get making a game is difficult, but I I have to be honest, the writing in this game is bad >_< . I'm constantly hearing "edgey" dialogue, for example "YEAH I'LL STAB HIM IN THE FACE WITH THIS SWORD" that's not good writing, it's not even funny, it is literally just bad. I'm not sure who is in charge of Quality Assurance, but you guys really need to take a step back, look at what you are writing, and actually put some thought into it.

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1 hour ago, Tiamat.8254 said:

Have you tried the dragon storm meta yet? It is possibly the most frustrating dialogue in the game.

THE CONNECTION IS WEAK

On topic... just read a book if you want good writing/story. I've played only a few games that manage to have those. It does suck a lot that you cannot skip the newer dialogs and ingame "cutscenes".

Edited by Hotride.2187
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4 hours ago, Tiamat.8254 said:

Have you tried the dragon storm meta yet? It is possibly the most frustrating dialogue in the game.

"That's bad!!" - "Not a huge fan of bad." ūüėā

Yes, it's truly painful to endure.

4 hours ago, Greencactaur.4396 said:

I'm not trying to be rude towards the developers or designers, I get making a game is difficult, but I I have to be honest, the writing in this game is bad >_< . I'm constantly hearing "edgey" dialogue, for example "YEAH I'LL STAB HIM IN THE FACE WITH THIS SWORD" that's not good writing, it's not even funny, it is literally just bad. I'm not sure who is in charge of Quality Assurance, but you guys really need to take a step back, look at what you are writing, and actually put some thought into it.

When I first voiced my dismay of the writing changing direction from a traditional fantasy style of dialogue, which might sound somewhat "old fashioned" but fits the setting, to modern, somewhat unintelligent, wannabe-cool teen speak (someone recently compared the dialogue style to Californian surfer slang ūüėĄ), I was met with a lot of negativity from the community. I'm glad to see more people have become aware of it.

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^ The US soldier speaks is what makes me want to bury my face in acid.

"you take point and lay down suppressing fire while recon team charlie neutralises the hostile outpost"

Yes, we all played Call of Duty. But this is meant to be a fantasy game. The writers just can't write outside of American pop culture.

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3 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

THE CONNECTION IS WEAK

On topic... just read a book if you want good writing/story. I've played only a few games that manage to have those. It does suck a lot that you cannot skip the newer dialogs and ingame "cutscenes".

Yeah but reading a book doesn't get me 2 gold ūüėā

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Firstly, there is no such thing as set fantasy dialogue. It doesn’t exist and never has done. I read a lot genre stuff and there’s so many different voices and actually a lot of the best these days use a lot of what many deem to be modern slang or colloquialisms. Plus.. this is not traditional fantasy. It’s a mesh of genres and styles. For better or worse it never tries to carve itself a unique sense of identity.

People also forget GW1 was poorly written too. Factions writing and dialogue is just as cringy as anything in this game and I say that as a lover of GW1.

Guild wars is written by a team that constantly  changes, rather than single writer forever writing the story with their own unique voice. The dialogue needs to be at a level which can flow seamlessly between writers, easily translated and accessible to millions of different people and contain only what is needed between gameplay. This is not the same medium as a book and cannot be compared so.(just like book and films are not easily comparable)

It’s very rare to see an mmo with exceptional and unique dialogue. Secret World is the only one I can think of, but that game sadly bombed twice.

tldr: the dialogue is fine for what it is doing

KA-BRAHAM!!

 

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4 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

THE CONNECTION IS WEAK

On topic... just read a book if you want good writing/story. I've played only a few games that manage to have those. It does suck a lot that you cannot skip the newer dialogs and ingame "cutscenes".

This response deserves an Oscar ūüėā. One actually can just read a book instead of anything really but it doesn‚Äôt change the problem discussed here. Good games used to be sort of like books I agree, but now we found ourselves in a storytelling setting worse than pixie fanfic

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I don't know. I'm kind of on the fence here. On one hand some characters dialogue is very funny and I enjoy it even on repeat. For expample Taimi and the sassy assistant to Rama (forgot her name). I would even argue that this part has improved much since the original personal story.

But on the other hand the overall story-arc is mostly cliché, illogical and bad. Good example is how much Joon mistrusts the commander after the power-plant incident. Highly illogical and out of character but some puzzleing and fighting had to happen. Also the anti-climactic, rushed second half of the ice brood saga. As soon as Bangar was delt with it became boring.

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I get the feeling non writers have a lot of say in the story, and the actual writers get left with trying to make it sound as coherent/well written as they can. That's the only explanation I have for just how bad the writing is.

 

Also, Harry Potter is amazing.

Edited by DexterousGecko.6328
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A book series written for children is hardly an excuse for poor writing in a video game appealing to an older audience.   Teen at the least.  More likely they try to sound "cool" to appeal to the tweet length attention spans the majority of people have in recent years. 

OP, no need to apologize.  There is some super cringe writing in the story, and then there are some genuine gems that make you wonder why they can't write like that all the time and make a compelling story.

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43 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Well, with a 13+ target audience, people expected more?

 

Kinda. I mean, Star Wars was marketed for 13 year olds, shame that never took off. Hell, I'm pretty sure My Little Pony's biggest fanbase were either young adult or middle aged men. Good writing, for better or for worse, transcends the target audience.

Edited by Westenev.5289
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5 hours ago, Yello.3406 said:

I don't know. I'm kind of on the fence here. On one hand some characters dialogue is very funny and I enjoy it even on repeat. For expample Taimi and the sassy assistant to Rama (forgot her name). I would even argue that this part has improved much since the original personal story.

 

But on the other hand the overall story-arc is mostly cliché, illogical and bad. Good example is how much Joon mistrusts the commander after the power-plant incident. Highly illogical and out of character. 

Honestly I enjoyed the charr personal story for ash legion and iron Legion a fair bit. But yeah Joon felt like a character with understandable motivations hastily written to have that jarring mood swing from. "I vouch and trust the commander, but how can I know you told the truth and will care about my ancient friend?" to "Show me proof of your innocence. Hmm. This proves you may be innocent and a aetherblade attack and the end of the world #47 that can only be saved by aurene's maguffin powers may be at place. BUT ILL KILL YOU AND START THR END OF THE WORLD  AFTER ONE SECOND IF YOU DISAGREE WITH ME DESPITE HAVING NO COMBAT SKILLS."

 

ironically dishonored 2 had a very similar character like that. A newly forged arrogant noble challenging you yo fight his 8 feet tall clockwork soldiers who had prepared a speech and armored trapped mansion to kill Corvo. Difference was, Dishonored 2 could be a stealth/gorefest/ambush game where you could freeze time and bypass the level as well as teleport. So you could do stuff like preemptively disable his locked doors and defences and kill them during the monologue. Or set him up to explode but he started a villain. 

 

Joon could have easily been better written too imo. I get there were staff cuts but INSISTING on taking on a player character who enters a battle with 30 combatants and leaves 30 slain sounds already illogical enough. Attacking you after proving your innocence Is just cake on the top as well.

 

Imo she could have easily been written as less "SHOW ME PROOF YOU'RE INNOCENT. I READ THIS, AND I THE BIPOLAR SCHOLAR DON'T CARE. MY LACK OF COMBAT SKILLS WILL DEFEAAT YOU!!!!!!!!1111111"

 

......

 

Maybe something like (gets handed evidence)

"No. No... This can't be right. My work destroyed. My friend Soo Won in shambles, corrupted and falling astray. I know you might have seen her as just a battery.. But she was more to me than just a THING... She was one of my only ... friends. Even before anyone else came. Closer to family even.... I know you want to get rid of her for your sake, but i need to do my best to save her for mine. She's more than just a toy to throw away when done. 

For her sake.. I can't just give up on her.. I promise, i''ll do everything i can to find a cure, Please! there has to be another way. Even if I can't save her with your plan, I need to fight for her sake and find a way.

Please... Give me this fight. Let me show you that I can back my actions with more than just words.. I can help you save her.. Otherwise.. How on earth could i even look at myself in the mirror if i just let them die? Just like that, forgotten, discarded in senseless murder. NO NO NO. there has to be a better way! Please reconsider!!... "

 

Vs "I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE INNOCENT AND DUDE WU IS CORRUPT. I WILL DEFEAT YOUUUUU!! AHH, THE HAMMER IMPLANTED INTO MY FACE, THE PAIN!!!!¬†A LANDMINE!?!?¬†{How many Geneva conventions are you violating!?!!?}¬†awgughwehrhwr!!!! *DIES*¬†" ūüėā

Edited by Sunchaser.9854
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55 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Well, with a 13+ target audience, people expected more?

There's some really good writing that has been targeted at even younger.

Yes, the vast majority of writing in the tween market is drivel. That's just as true, however, of adult markets.

I'd chalk it up to "MMO writing" more than the target age. I don't expect hiring A tier writers is a budget priority for most MMOs.

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In my opinion, Guild Wars 2 has always been very hit or miss. You’ll have the greats like Bengar where you realize…wow I believe he is an old, hateful Charr with a lot of background and motivation. The writing and voice actor blend perfectly. 

Then you have a character like Braham who comes up with catchphrases and talks like an edgy teenage human in the modern day. Doesn’t at all talk or come across as a Norn and what the game sets up for them as a race lore-wise.

Both have great voice actors, but the writing is so different. All that said, there are times (more often then not) where the characters and the established world don’t mix and it comes across as the writers don’t take their own setting or characters seriously. 

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41 minutes ago, Westenev.5289 said:

 

Kinda. I mean, Star Wars was marketed for 13 year olds, shame that never took off. Hell, I'm pretty sure My Little Pony's biggest fanbase were either young adult or middle aged men. Good writing, for better or for worse, transcends the target audience.

Star Wars is beloved because it's flashy sci-fi from the 70s at a time when not much compared to it. The writing sure doesn't hold up, and the sequel-prequels are notorious for it. "I HATE YOU!!!!"

Meanwhile My Little Pony was a minor internet joke that people who struggle with social cues took a bit too seriously. And by too seriously, i mean a large portion of the adult fan base had horse-related desires that get you locked up, or at the very least banned from petting zoos.

Writing for teens means cramming contemporary slang and one-liners in, making sarcastic jibes at every possible moment (and then explaining it was sarcasm), and adding as much angsty dialogue as possible. Which is GW2.

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4 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Well, with a 13+ target audience, people expected more?

Yes.  I expected a lot more.  A somewhat guilty admission of mine, but I used to like watching Word Girl.  It's a PBS show meant for very little kids to teach them complicated words.  However, the writing in that show is solid.  It is witty, funny, and can be surprising at times.  It's far better than what we see in this 13+ target audience game.  

 

6 hours ago, Goettel.4389 said:

I'm guessing most modern 'writers' aren't readers, especially when it comes to writing for games which is awful in 99% of games.

This.  My sister likes to read older books, usually horror (H.P. Lovecraft, Dracula, Frankenstein, etc).  When she sat down to read The Count of Monty Cristo, she had to grab a thesaurus to figure out what the book was saying.  I myself like to read more political and argumentive stuff, and the way people like Thomas Sowell and Alan Bloom write makes me feel ashamed to put my fingers to keys.

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12 hours ago, Tiamat.8254 said:

Have you tried the dragon storm meta yet? It is possibly the most frustrating dialogue in the game.

I would call the writing there something like "discount Avengers." Then again, maybe that's giving too much credit to the influence of The Avengers. It may be going back to writers like Aaron Sorkin (I think that's the one?). This quippy style of dialogue where every character has something bantery to say, no matter how tense or serious the situation. Like this refusal in style to write a situation as truly grave and disturbing, and write characters as people who are sometimes speechless, confused, or awkward. I can understand it if the goal is to have a lighter tone without being dora the explorer levels of stakes, though IME, it can get corny to the point it feels so disconnected from the situation that it's hard to even connect with the subject matter being presented to you.

I would contrast in this game, dragonstorm vs. some of the writing in drizzlewood. Drizzlewood has some quippy writing, but it's mostly centered around a specific character who is established as having a quippy way of talking and the rest of it is pretty serious and peppered with GW2-specific charr terminology, making it more immersive. Versus dragonstorm where every other character is quippy and it's peppered with RL pop culture terminology.

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