Gift of Battle / Gift of Exploration: A petition.

[Voltekka.2375]

1. People eat through content and get bored, naturally. They get everything so fast, by farming sw or Istan. And they complain theres no content.
2. Anet decides to make people have some motivation for a huge goal (legendary, which is nothing but an overpriced skin but a big goal nonetheless), be it map explo, GoB, collections.
3. People cant be kittened to do said content, cause EVERYTHING has to come fast. I mean, if someone cant do wvw for 5-6 hours with full boosters for a GoB by following a zerg-flip a camp every 10 mins, they ask Anet to change it. (This is MINIMUM effort, really. Even if you cannot stomach the mode, you do not have to interact with people most of the times as long as you keep watching which camps near your spawn are flipped. I am more concerned pvers have zero issue doing 303 hearts)
4. Anet changes this, GoB is obtainable much easier, people are happy they get it easily.
5. People peoceed to complain about lack of content.

You see where this is going

[Vayne.8563]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Vayne.8563 said:The OP seems to have forgotten that originally you couldn't just use badges of honor to buy gifts of battle, because even if you could do it that way, you needed a minimum level to buy a gift of battle and more to the point, when legendaries first came out, you needed to complete all four WvW maps to get your world complete for your gift of exploration. So from launch the game has required you to play some WvW particularly for your first legendary.

WvW ranks were addded much later, the original requirement was lvl 80.Then they added WvW ranks and put a rank requirement of 14 on it.

And yeah, WvW was a part of world completion, but then they removed it, and yet they increased the time requirement (not the level of participation, mind you) in WvW.Their message has been inconsistent at best.

It's not so onerous as the OP posts. You can't be banished from the mists because no one can kick you out of the mists. At worst, you can be kicked from a squad, but very little stops you from following a squad even if you're not in it. However, there are plenty of things you can do in small groups or even solo in WvW without ever joining a squad.

It's just not that big a deal either way.It's still several hours of gameplay that a person will most likely not be enjoying. Truth be told, PvE is the game mode that keeps the game running, and yet the least rewarding, and the one that gets less concessions.The 10% (if that much) of WvW-exclusive players got their chance to unlock Hero Points without participating in PvE, they keep getting concessions that allow them to exclude themselves from PvE. And yet, the vast majority of players who only play PvE (because lets face it, it's the only good thing left in GW2) are still forced to endure the crap-quality of the other two game modes to unlock stuff that is used for PvE only.

Arena Net, basically lost the ability to make PvP content in GW2 appealing, they either lost the minds behind GW1 and the original GW2 content, or they don't have the resources to put them to work effectively, whatever. The point is, since even before HoT, WvW was dying a slow death, and after HoT both PvP and WvW started a slow spiral of decay in quality and population (wvw saw a inversion of this due to the legendary back and the news of the rework, but still not even close), and their only solution has been to make it so that people that would not touch the game modes have almost no choice but to participate in it, either because the rewards are so kitten enticing, or because they're actually forced to, due to requirements for legendaries.This of course leads to a big % of the already small population being composed of people that don't care the slightest about what's essentially a competitive team game mode, which, in turn reduces the ability of the team's they're inserted in to be as competitive, which then reduces the competitive people's enjoyment of the game, and with their dissatisfaction, they start caring less or just leaving, which increases the % of people in the already small population game modes that doesn't care about it, which creates a snowball effect.

All because of a lack of creativity when it comes to creating motivators for people to participate in the game mode.

The example of the most ridiculous of these changes in GW2 was when they started adding ascended gear as a reward in sPvP (the only mode that doesn't use it) and made it so cheap it kinda became the only way to obtain it. Then instead of removing it, or just making it more expensive in PvP (again the only game mode that doesn't use it), their choice was, lets make them craft stuff to avoid crafting stuff, and lets make it so that the best ways to avoid crafting stuff to avoid crafting stuff, is again through

the only game mode that doesn't use them

!!! That's some genius stuff going on in Arena Net's headquarters!

I don't know where you get your 10% number from. My memory is that, according to MO, 10% of the playerbase consider themselves PvP players, but 30% consider themselves WvW players. 60% consider themselves PvE players. Something along those lines if I'm not remembering the quote right.

Was there ever a survey to see who considers that, and i've been playing GW2 since launch, and to my best knowledge they never really revealed such numbers. So forgive me if i don't take your word for it, without a quote. Also numbers from 2012-2015 are wildly different from current numbers.

The 10% comes from reasoned estimation based on GW2 Efficiency. Only 12% of players in the GWEfficiency sample have a rank above silver in WvW. Even in players with over 4000hours of play time, only ~25% are in the Gold rank or above. So i'm thinking that saying that only 10% or significantly less of the whole game's population will play WvW exclusively isn't a big stretch.

Also your memory of those first years of making legendaries may be faulty or you may have been lucky. I remember one tower I needed that my side could never cap because we never ended up that color, so I ended up having to transfer servers to get that point. It took me months of checking before I made that decision. It's not so cut and dried as you remember.

I played in SFR since launch, was there when we were climbing to #1 even when outnumbered, so i got my WvW exploration quite early. I think i 100% my first character within the first couple months, even as a pvx player. I had a similar problem when we were red for like 3 rotations in a row, but i don't think it would be possible to take months to rotate into a specific color, sorry, not buying it.

In fact, there were far more complaints back then about having to complete WvW maps for world complete than we get now about how hard it is to get a gift of battle.

True, i also never said it was a bad decision to do that. Only thing i said about it was that on one hand, they removed that requirement for the legendaries, on the other hand they have consistently made it take longer to get the gift of battle. And i mean it takes longer, it's not harder, unlike in the past where you had to be mildly active to get the gift of battle by either doing JPs, or fighting. Now you can be semi-afk just making sure to keep the participation up, and you'll get the reward track progression within a few hours.

More to the point, just because only 30% of the population consider themselves WvWers doesn't mean that 60% of the PvE'ers dislike WvW so immensely anyway. I run a casual PvE guild and even people who dislike WvW, seem to enjoy it on the rare occassions we go in there to work on gifts of battle. It's something else to do. We're not looking for big fights, or zergs. We just run around and cap stuff and it works fine.

Its not about liking or disliking, it's about who cares for each content stream enough to keep it working. Without people that are utterly invested in a content type (without wvw guilds, commanders, etc in this case) the experience decays, and the content becomes less and less played. That's what's been happening in PvP, and all because they shifted their focus from the people that care about the content and keep it alive, to people that care about the rewards provided by the content type.

WvW, thankfully isn't that bad yet, maybe because it's easier to pick up, and you can more easily "blend in" into a large group and participate with minimal investment. But it still has suffered from the minimal ammount of support that has been given to PvP modes in general.

Does it take a while? Sure. But even as a PvE player that doesn't mean I can't get some enjoyment out of it. I might say I don't like dungeons but when it started I had to do 9 dungeon runs. There were no reward tracks anywhere. Now you can do five or either PvP or WvW if you prefer for dungeon tokens.

To some it does. Its an entirely different beast comparing dungeons to WvW. A lot of people avoid any form of pvp, just because it's a form of pvp.

PVE doesn't need concessions in this because 80-90% of the time in making a legendary is PvE anyway. In reality you could just do dailies like wait for big spender 80 times and use badges from your chests to buy something cheap, which would give you 80 WvW reward potions which would give you a gift of battle.

80 times lol... OK some quick thinking and quick maths...From the

wiki

You have 8 achievements in the pool where Big spender is at. It selects 2 at random from that pool, which gives it a 2 in 8 chance to get picked, so 25%.25% means that in 100 tries, you theoretically should get 25 of that result. That means, unless i'm already half asleep, that you'll need around 320 attempts (days) to get 80 days with big spender, and that's assuming that person has the Badges to spend on the daily. So pretty close to 11 months of waiting for that to work. Solid plan.

PvE needs concessions, because reward tracks and WvW and PvP pip chests are a much to faster way to obtain PvE rewards than you can obtain them in PvE. That's why you have crap situations like when they released the WvW back piece. Sure you had more people playing WvW, but you also had much more people afk, not doing anything worthwhile, while preventing people that actually want to, and enjoy playing WvW to do so.

Doing easy WvW dailies (veteran creature slayer, daily ruin capture) would make this much faster. It's really not as hard as some people are making it out to be.It's not hard, but to some people it's forced. And when you force people into doing something, they'll likely not do it, just because they're being forced to.Think about it this way: how many of those mandatory reading books from school did you read? I'm an avid reader, and i read one of those only while in school. I did end up reading and enjoying most of them years later.

That's what i mean, pushing people into doing stuff they don't want just to boost some numbers, when there's people that actually want to enjoy that content and can be hindered from doing that, because of the people that don't want to do it, is not a great policy. And it has been a big part of how sPvP has fallen in quality.

And you can bet it affects WvW as well, and you'll start noticing those more when they release the reworked worlds, and populations start being more even across the servers. When we start having all servers at more or less equal strength (assuming they do a better job with that match maker than current ones), every person afk for ppt, or killing stuff just for a daily will start having a larger effect, especially at peak times.

I found an older quote for you, which should help some:

Link here:

https://massivelyop.com/2017/09/27/guild-wars-2s-mike-obrien-on-classic-guild-wars-playstyle-balance-and-building-social-mmos/

There’s a bit on Path of Fire, of course, a note about people pitching movies, and a fun stat: “About 90 percent play a lot of PvE content, about 40 percent play a lot of World vs. World or PvP content, and about 30 percent play a lot of both.”

This quote seems to indicate 40% of the playerbase plays predominantly WvW, which is higher than I said. I don't always source my quotes, because it's time consuming but my memory has been pretty good. In any event, Mike Obrien has given a higher number of people who predominantly WvW than I said, so there's your quote. It's from the interview linked in that interview. Obviously Anet doesn't have to poll anyone to get those numbers they HAVE those numbers.

Yeah, and population on GW2, like on Russia, is over 100% then? You look at that quote, which means nothing, really, since it doesn't really differentiate the population. Unless that 40% is actually a typo and it's 10%.

That sentence is actually nonsense, unless that 40% is a typo, or the numbers are just meaningless without further context.

You have no evidence of how many of the people who are pushed into that content dislike it, how many like it but need the encouragement and how many end up liking it but would have never tried it are running around. What you're doing is saying I feel this way so probably most people do. In my experience that logic doesn't always hold true.Yeah, logic doesn't hold true for religious fanatics, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and zealots in general. For the rest of the cosmos, there's a reason why it's logic.

It wasn't the quote I was looking for, there was one made after that but I have no idea how to find it, so if you don't believe it, that's okay by me. So far you've pulled one number out of who knows where, I provided a quote from a devs. It's your guesswork against an actual quote. I know which one I'll believe. And again, it's not even the only quote, it's the only one I can find easily. I remember the 30% number, and was surprised by the 10% SPVP number. You were the one who challenged me, if you recall. Now that I've produced A quote, you're going to find flaw in it. Tell me, where does your 10% come from?

[miraude.2107]

@phs.6089 said:

@miraude.2107 said:

@phs.6089 said:

@miraude.2107 said:

She doesn't sell

GIFT OF BATTLE

. That is exclusively in the WvW track.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Battle_Item_Reward_Track

You have to do pvp to get it. No exceptions. Your only option is to complete the WvW reward track for it as it's the very last item you get from that track. If the attendant had sold it and I only need to have both 250 shards of glory and 250 shards of war to get a Gift of Battle, I would have done that ages ago since I know you can buy the bloody shards on the TP. PvPers should have a different way to get Gift of Exploration and PvErs should have a different way to get Gift of Battle if they don't want to touch map exploration or pvp.

I see where confusion comes from 'pvp for second gen leg'. Please stop calling wvw 'pvp'

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_WorldWorld versus World (also known as WvW) is a combination Player versus Player/Player versus Environment game mode where players from three different servers (worlds), or more, battle in the Mists.

If I can get into a map and get killed by another player, that's PvP. Splitting hairs like that is like telling me to not call Fortnite a pvp game because you can build in it.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"miraude.2107" said:If I can get into a map and get killed by another player, that's PvP. Splitting hairs like that is like telling me to not call Fortnite a pvp game because you can build in it.

Except this is the jargon that ANet uses: they formally distinguish WvW from PvP. Further, relevant to this thread, Legendary weapons include a component from PvE (gift of exploration), one from WvW (gift of battle), and one from PvP (gift of glory). (Also relevant to the thread: why does ANet insist on active WvW participation for 'battle' but allow us to buy glory with shards from the TP, which, on top of that, are super cheap.)

[Turkeyspit.3965]

Both are accessible via in game activity, with linear and predictable progression, and RNG has nothing to do with it. More MMO games should pattern their 'epic' quest chains in the same way.

[Strider Pj.2193]

At the time I am typing this

139 voted for the status quo69 voted to change something.

[Rauderi.8706]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"miraude.2107" said:If I can get into a map and get killed by another player, that's PvP. Splitting hairs like that is like telling me to not call Fortnite a pvp game because you can build in it.

Except this is the jargon that ANet uses: they formally distinguish

WvW

from

PvP

. Further, relevant to this thread, Legendary weapons include a component from PvE (gift of exploration),

one

from WvW (gift of battle), and one from PvP (gift of glory). (Also relevant to the thread: why does ANet insist on active WvW participation for 'battle' but allow us to buy glory with shards from the TP, which, on top of that, are super cheap.)

Minor correction: two from WvW. Gift of Battle and Gift of War. Gift of War comes from the plentiful and cheap Memory of Battle, parallel to Shard of Glory for Gift of Glory and PvP.

So, we can buy our way out of one part of WvW, and the PvP component, but not Gift of Battle, for some reason.

The question is still relevant though. Why does ANet insist on such non-equivalence? Why force WvW and not sPvP?

Thankfully, I trust the devs know what would happen by forcing PvE players to do PvP. It wouldn't look good for PvP overall, and I doubt whatever "conversion rate" is going to be acceptable for more competitive players to put up with it.But, as much as WvW is "mass PvP", it's also in many cases a sort of "PvP lite". A PvE player can just glom onto a zerg, do his business, and make progress. While it helps to be in a squad, it's not necessary, and getting kicked from one doesn't prevent progress the same way it would in PvP. Perhaps ANet assumes that might even be "fun".

Meanwhile, this argument almost always comes from the PvE->WvW side, and it tends to make folks not very sympathetic. I figure if a player is willing to put in the equivalent time in WvW and farm enough GoBs, not only he doing what he likes, but he deserves to be able to trade off for other Gifts. And in that, I say let the trading post determine market worth for them.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"MauChann.3081" said:1: The Gift of Battle is a feared item by PvE players, because it forces us to play WvW content. Besides that WvW players are not happy to have us pugs intrude in their squads, or play solo and flip towers, do smaller objectives, because they had some sort of idea going on and thus we're being banished from the mists that way. Back in the day we were able to farm AP ( achievement points ) for our Gift of Battle and we were perfectly content with that, that way we didn't have to go annoy WvW players with questions about why we were not allowed in a squad, just to complete that reward track.

"banished from the mists"... indeed.It's clear from all of the fear-mongering in your description of WvW that you have never actually tried to play it.

[Etria.3642]

Oh they have and they claim to be willing to learn and play the classes wanted...according to posts in the wvw forums.

They play on an eu server or I would have suggested some options. In this thread though they do not sound nearly as willing, no?

[mindcircus.1506]

@"Etria.3642" said:Oh they have and they claim to be willing to learn and play the classes wanted...according to posts in the wvw forums.

They play on an eu server or I would have suggested some options. In this thread though they do not sound nearly as willing, no?

Hogwash.

Lets just look at this one thing for the sake of argument:

Besides that WvW players are not happy to have us pugs intrude in their squads, or play solo and flip towers, do smaller objectives, because they had some sort of idea going on and thus we're being banished from the mists that way.

So no one can play solo/flip camps towers and do smaller objectives without incurring the wrath of the gatekeepers and blowhards?Because that is what is said there.An hour or two in WvW and you know this isn't frowned on. Hundreds of people do it on every server every day for hours. It's called Roaming. It's an acceptable, valid and supported way to play the game mode. There are builds on Metabattle to support it.But the OP is pretending this isn't valid or people get yelled at for it.This, quite simply, does not happen. And that is just one of the inaccuracies in the OP.

And every week, when one of these "PvE'ers hate WvW and we need a new path to GoB" posts is made, it contains untrue statements like this in order to support the entitlement of the gamers in question.

[Etria.3642]

You're correct sir. Or ma'am. We definitely want roamers flipping camps. Taking sentries and doing callouts.

I just went by a series of posts from the wvw area. Heck like I said there. We will totally take casuals on open raid days...with voice or at the least a class we need and it is not all firebrands and scourges. Sure there is some toxicity but there is in raids too...and we won't make you ping titles or rank. Just perform!

[MauChann.3081]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"MauChann.3081" said:1: The Gift of Battle is a feared item by PvE players, because it forces us to play WvW content. Besides that WvW players are not happy to have us pugs intrude in their squads, or play solo and flip towers, do smaller objectives, because they had some sort of idea going on and thus we're being banished from the mists that way. Back in the day we were able to farm AP ( achievement points ) for our Gift of Battle and we were perfectly content with that, that way we didn't have to go annoy WvW players with questions about why we were not allowed in a squad, just to complete that reward track.

"banished from the mists"... indeed.It's clear from all of the fear-mongering in your description of WvW that you have never actually tried to play it.

Now you tell me why I am able to make this thread and voice my opinion about WvW while "i haven't played in it"I made multiple legendaries already and I have been upset with the reward track since it came into existance.I have played my fair share of WvW in the old ways of getting a GoB aswell for the new one.If I didn't play WvW at all I wouldn't make this thread and lie about an opinion I absolutely am allowed to have.

[InsaneQR.7412]

I would actually lile to see a PvE reward track system. So if you cant level masteries you can choose a reward track to get certain amounts of loot.Certain reward tracks are faster filled with cwrtain activities. Like dungeon reward tracks fill faster in dungeons. Auric basin reward track faster in auric basin and the gift if Battle reward track should just be tediously slow and only get better advance by killing world bosses and legends.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"InsaneQR.7412" said:I would actually lile to see a PvE reward track system. So if you cant level masteries you can choose a reward track to get certain amounts of loot.Certain reward tracks are faster filled with cwrtain activities. Like dungeon reward tracks fill faster in dungeons. Auric basin reward track faster in auric basin and the gift if Battle reward track should just be tediously slow and only get better advance by killing world bosses and legends.

Would you be willing to accept the loss to counterbalance the new rewards?Such as the Tarir meta not awarding the guaranteed amalgamated gemstone at the end and instead giving a bump to your reward track...Or are you just looking for more loot?

Reward tracks are fantastic when it comes to targeting certain rewards, but they cannot come close to the income generated by general PvE play. Even open world gathering is, on average, much more profitable than WvW reward tracks.Dungeons are already "not bad rewards", adding another reward layer on top of that would be pretty unbalancing. If you got a reward track for dungeons, would you be happy losing your guaranteed dungeon currency for path completion in favor of a reward track?

[InsaneQR.7412]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"InsaneQR.7412" said:I would actually lile to see a PvE reward track system. So if you cant level masteries you can choose a reward track to get certain amounts of loot.Certain reward tracks are faster filled with cwrtain activities. Like dungeon reward tracks fill faster in dungeons. Auric basin reward track faster in auric basin and the gift if Battle reward track should just be tediously slow and only get better advance by killing world bosses and legends.

Would you be willing to accept the loss to counterbalance the new rewards?Such as the Tarir meta not awarding the guaranteed amalgamated gemstone at the end and instead giving a bump to your reward track...Or are you just looking for more loot?

Reward tracks are fantastic when it comes to targeting certain rewards, but they cannot come close to the income generated by general PvE play. Even open world gathering is, on average, much more profitable than WvW reward tracks.Dungeons are already "not bad rewards", adding another reward layer on top of that would be pretty unbalancing. If you got a reward track for dungeons, would you be happy losing your guaranteed dungeon currency for path completion in favor of a reward track?

I think they should reward different loot as the meta event.Like auric ingots, certain runes, different recipes etc.As you said targeted rewards. Stuff that arent really common to get.

Dungeon rewards could get replaced by reward tracks IMO exceot the loot bags that drop with the currency. So instead of running 8 different paths you could get rewards of a certain dungeon by doing thw reward track and you unlock thw reward track by doing the story and you unlock more rewards by doing more paths.With more experience gain in the corresponding dungeon this would give better chances for targeted looting and would IMO be a better reward system for them.Tying the gift if battle to the dungeons wouöd actually be smart too. This would give them more population and doing all dungeon paths would probaböy a decent time sink for 1 gift.

[Kalendraf.9521]

The current method for legendary weapons requiring both types of gifts is fine.

What I'd like to see changed is how legendary armors are handled. WvW, PvP and PvE modes each having their own legendary armor set is great idea. Having the PvE version tied specifically to raids (which is a tiny aspect of PvE that only caters to a minority of PvE players) is terrible implementation.

[mindcircus.1506]

@"InsaneQR.7412" said:I think they should reward different loot as the meta event.Like auric ingots, certain runes, different recipes etc.As you said targeted rewards. Stuff that arent really common to get.This translates into "more loot"The meta events and maps supporting them already reward these things.

Tying the gift if battle to the dungeons would actually be smart too. This would give them more population and doing all dungeon paths would probaböy a decent time sink for 1 gift.It's time to face up to the fact that Arenanet has no desire to revitalize dungeons or incentivize players to use them as a time sink. The development of more instanced 5 man content and associated rewards takes place in Fractals. The developers are actively working on them and their rewards. It's not a good idea to push players into old content that is somewhat buggy and doesn't represent Anet's current or best work anyways.

Fractals are already adequately rewarding and don't need a path to GoB to entice players into them.Besides, they are just shorter dungeons anyways.

[Handin.4032]

I think it's pretty fine already. Most of the time I've seen WvW issues with people getting Gift of Battle on my server is they come in - expect to get it done fast, or not have to pvp, etc. Or they come on in pve farming specs, run out of spawn, get killed and then immediately go into chat. That being said - I think it's much faster to get the GOB than any of the PvE ones!

[b k.1648]

@"MauChann.3081" said:2: Gift of Exploration. Now I am not a WvW player so I can't really speak for the WvW community here but I can imagine how tedious it is to be forced to play PvE core content, to get your shiny weapon. There isn't really an alternative right now and for now I can't really think of any. Previously completing WvW maps was only a part of making this item. But making the completion of WvW maps only, doesn't really weigh up against the amount of maps Tyria has. Feel free to leave suggestions though, and also feel free to leave your experiences with obtaining this item, as again I am not a WvW player and can't really speak about this.

Because the exploration nodes are almost never controlled by one team all at the same time, I actually think map completion in WvW could viably offer a Gift of Exploration. Back when WvW was required in addition to the PvE maps, it could take a very long time to get every point of interest in WvW because you'd have to wait so long to break into some of them.

With the current system being a bit less likely to lock a server in the same colour for months on end, it wouldn't be quite as bad but in most cases, it will unavoidably take weeks to do WvW map completion. So despite the much smaller size compared to the PvE overworld, I don't think it's unreasonable to have a second gift available via WvW.

I'm not too bothered by the Gift of Battle given that I've played a lot of WvW, but it would be nice if PvE players had something fun to do in WvW that had less of a PvP emphasis. I don't think the lack of "light" content to ease players into the WvW game mode actually does it any favours, and EotM is no longer particularly useful in that regard.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

I haven't done a 100% world completion since they took wvw out of the equation, but I got 4 before that out of over 30 something characters though.

The whole reason many people that played or still play wvw is because they went in looking for Been There Done that, many stayed because they found fun even through irritation.

And sure, the GOB was probably easier to obtain in those days, but some of the exploration that was required for Been There Done That wasnt. As an example, for my second character it took 2 months to get the last POI and Vista I needed because we never seemed to have enough people to break in to greens Garrison. Waiting 2 months for a GOE all the while without certantity that you'll EVER be able to get it, is far worse than 8-10 hours for a GOB. I'm not trying to poke fun at new people that hate wvw, because believe it or not, I remember the feeling, but trust that the division is better and far more easy now than it used to be, because progression is controlled by the individual player and not by the server's manpower or lack thereof.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

I think legendaries should be specific to what kind of content they want you to do and not force you to go into PvE/PvP/WvW/Raids when you're focusing on grinding for it in one of those. At least give us options.

Let there be a way to get all legendary weapons from all content. As for legendary armor, a method to get it from every game mode. (Yes I'm separating PvE from Raids just like there's a separation between PvP and WvW.)

[Justine.6351]

As a WvW player I complained about having to do all those HoT masteries so I could get The Shining Blade and made a thread suggesting some type of conversion NPC for each other's respective gifts.

The PvErs told me to stop crying.So I went ahead and did the HoT masteries over several months.I got the Shining Blade.If I can do it anyone can.

[Eternalight.4708]

It's fine as is. Although not including PvP in the process is generally odd. Legendary items should require effort & should have all been account bound from the get go to hold a little weight but since prestige is thrown out very few skins actually do. GW1 still takes a big dump on GW2 in terms of such things.

[Liston.9708]

They already removed completion from wvw. Both sides can either do both or save gold to buy from TP which requires neither.

[starlinvf.1358]

@"Eternalight.4708" said:It's fine as is. Although not including PvP in the process is generally odd. Legendary items should require effort & should have all been account bound from the get go to hold a little weight but since prestige is thrown out very few skins actually do. GW1 still takes a big dump on GW2 in terms of such things.

I would wager because PvP was meant to happen in seasons, while WvW was happening 24/7, and it was already part of the Map complete requirement. If that was still in play, I bet no one would be complaining about needing 500 badges or having to spend 8 hours as being "impossible".