Death Penalty (GW1) or Armor Damage (GW2)

[Game of Bones.8975]

For those of you who didn't play GW1, when your character died they were automatically re-spawned to the nearest Resurrection Shrine with -15 Death Penalty (-15% Health and Magic Energy) which was cumulative each time you died. Upon reaching -60 DP you re-spawned to the nearest outpost, no ifs, ands or buts. Death Penalty was worked off at a rate of 1% per 50 exp or by using various spells, abilities, and consumables.

You know what happens in GW2.

Is one system better than the other?

[derd.6413]

i think both systems work for their respective game

[GoldenPants.1870]

I read some about the system in GW1 and I honestly do not think it is a good system.

[Mikali.9651]

Can't say one is better than another, they are different systems and both have a place. I do prefer GW1's system, it worked great for instanced content, but I do not think it would work well in Open World content - you would need to create some kind of duration system for it to last, or people would just waypoint to town and back, removing DP in process.But then again, Open World content is so easy in GW2 that I don't see a reason for such system ever existing in the game. Can't remember when was the last time I died.

[mercury ranique.2170]

I do not think that DP would work in GW2, but that doesn't make one better over the other.

[Glider.5792]

We have some sort of death penalty, but it involves down state:

• at first down, you have 75% downed health
• at second, you have 50% downed health
• at third, you have 25% downed health
• fourth time, you die instantly.

It takes some time to get your death penalty back up, so there is some downside to downing at least, but nothing to dying.There should be some penalty to actualy dying though. Atm noone cares if they die, they dont lose anything, repairs cost nothing.

At least repair costs should honestly come back, and be higher than they were. People should learn and try to avoid death.

[Ayakaru.6583]

The armour damage doesn't really occur until you die 6 times. And after that you can repair it for free.So punishment is almost completely absent in gw2

[Danikat.8537]

GW2's armour damage serves the same purpose of reducing your stats (armour in GW1 has relatively minimal stats), it just takes longer to kick in because you have to damage all your armour before any is destroyed. But then it also persists across areas (until repaired) whereas death penalty was reset whenever you went to a town or outpost.

I'm not sure which I prefer honestly, I feel like both are a pretty minimal punishment compared to what happens in other games when you die. Having to respawn at a shrine or waypoint and go back is more of an issue for me, and even that's not a big deal.

@Game of Bones.8975 said:Upon reaching -60 DP you re-spawned to the nearest outpost, no ifs, ands or buts.

That's only in certain areas. I've run around more dungeons and open-world maps than I care to remember with 60% DP, and in some cases still managed to finish it.

[maddoctor.2738]

That's not how Death Penalty worked in Guild Wars 1.Reaching 60% meant nothing, you could continue playing just fine. If you got to 60% you couldn't port anymore, and your friends had to revive you but you could play. Only if the entire group reached 60%, and you were in hard mode, you were ported to the town you entered the zone from. In elite areas, like the Underworld, there were no shrines, so if the party wiped, you were ported out immediately.

Further, killing bosses awarded an instant 2% morale boost, and aside from experience from mobs (1% per 75 xp) you could use consumables (mostly sweets like candy) to reduce or even remove death penalty completely.

I'm not sure why you'd want Death Penalty in Guild Wars 2, what would be the point? Armor repairs also serve no purpose now, they used to be a gold sink, now it's nothing. I guess they are only keeping it in the game to give uses to the repair canisters.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

I don't like a system that makes it harder for you to re-enter the fight. Clearly something went wrong: you made a mistake, maybe you weren't geared/spec'ed in order to succeed, what is gained by sending you back to that fight with an additional penalty in stats?

For GW2, I don't understand why they keep armor damage in the game given there is no cost to repair it?

Death penalties shouldn't be too taxing or punitive regardless, but with GW2's current system, there is literally no downside to Leeroying something, other than having to spawn at a waypoint a distance from where you were. At least in WoW you ended up with a repair bill for being silly or foolish.

[Cynder.2509]

This here?

[Tarlonniel.6534]

I have traumatic memories of the Guild Wars 1 system. Those first few weeks of playing, before I finally built a good team with decent skills, were a nightmare of dying halfway through clearing a map and not wanting to lose all my progress by starting over, so I kept throwing my ranger's increasingly fragile body at the enemies until they laughed themselves to death ;)

In GW2 I still use the same tactic sometimes - I remember defeating Joko with a "naked" mesmer, that was fun, too bad he didn't enjoy the show - but repair canisters are relatively easy to come by and ANet is pretty good about placing spawn points close by, so this is definitely the system I prefer.

[Ototo.3214]

Someone already mentioned it but there is a similar thing with downed state in GW2. I honestly can't say if the GW1 way is better, didn't play GW1, but I will say that the breaking armor thing does feel a bit pointless since you just fix it with no penalty. I'd honestly rather your armor just not break, since most places you'd die a lot just provide a free anvil anyway...making the system more just a nuisance than a penalty.

[Lexi.1398]

I've always hated death penalties in MMOs; for being bad at the game, you become /even worse/ at fighting and have to wait (mmo depending sometimes a veeeery long time) either doing nothing or fighting some stuff you don't wanna to not risk losing more dp. For me, it makes it very unfun. I'm of the belief that having no penalty except distance to run is the most enjoyable system, and as it's the most fun it is the best.

[Randulf.7614]

@derd.6413 said:i think both systems work for their respective game

This

[Luthan.5236]

I'm just starting with GW1 (grinding for some title in Pre-Searing until I really can start). So I don't know yet about the system there (doesn't affect me yet). But I read about it. I guess it is fine for those instanced system (more like a single player RPG which you also can play with others - or just use henchmen) without respawning mobs.

But for GW2 the current system is best. I wouldn't even say armor damage is needed. (Since the repair cost does not exist anymore and I barely get that much damage that it would annoy me to run to a repair merchant. I just can repair while selling junk.)

The main problem is respawning at WP. Afaik in thet expansion maps - especially with PoF - there are less waypoints. And I still play core without expansions. A bit annoying to walk even if it is a short distance. Or nearest WP might get contested. Encourages you to play carefully. (Also champs regenerate health while out of combat - no soloing by dying and repeatedly killing his health possible.)

The actual stuff simialr to GW1 might be the downed penalty. But with the faster paced combat system that one gets removed pretty fast. (Only troublesome if you'd need to rally often in a very short time.)

Seems totally fine to me and I think they thought a lot about it and made a great system here.

[Khisanth.2948]

That description for GW1 is for hard mode only.

Death Penalty still exists in GW2. Accumulate enough and you lose the downed state.

GW1's implementation of death penalty is also one of the dumbest piece of game design anywhere. "Oh look you couldn't beat this enemy, now try it with less health than the last time." In what way does that make sense?

@Lexi.1398 said:I've always hated death penalties in MMOs; for being bad at the game, you become /even worse/ at fighting and have to wait (mmo depending sometimes a veeeery long time) either doing nothing or fighting some stuff you don't wanna to not risk losing more dp. For me, it makes it very unfun. I'm of the belief that having no penalty except distance to run is the most enjoyable system, and as it's the most fun it is the best.

You only become worse if the game uses a stupid mechanism like GW1. For example Borderlands takes a percent of your money instead. That will set you back somewhat but that won't make you weaker.

[Guy.9207]

I honestly don't want any of it. It's just pointless as far as I can tell. GW1 makes you weaker, which is bad if you're aiming for high-end pve, and GW2 brings you one more hassle that you might as well not care about altogether.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Death penalty is a better punishment in instances with many enemies and that can have wipes since it resets over time by earning exp.

Armor damage is a better punshiment in open world since it can be reset by getting to an outpost.

[Sylvari.2953]

At least I can repair anytime and anywhere with my perma canister which makes armor damage pointless but it's still better than death penalty in some other games (especially older ones, I really hated when exp loss was a thing in MMOs). GW1's death penalty was too annoying and discouraging for my liking.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I enjoyed GW1’s death penalty more as there was more cost for failure. Players that consistently struggled did have consumables that they could use to reduce/remove the death penalty.

[Rauderi.8706]

Waypoint costs and the waste of time from the Walk of Shame is sufficient punishment for failure.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@"maddoctor.2738" said:That's not how Death Penalty worked in Guild Wars 1.Reaching 60% meant nothing, you could continue playing just fine. If you got to 60% you couldn't port anymore, and your friends had to revive you but you could play. Only if the entire group reached 60%, and you were in hard mode, you were ported to the town you entered the zone from. In elite areas, like the Underworld, there were no shrines, so if the party wiped, you were ported out immediately.

It's worth adding that in normal mode, there was no limit on "porting."

Res shrines only ever activated if the whole party wiped. This resulted in the occasional unusual circumstance. Say that everyone in the party died except one character, who had no resurrection skill. If a player, s/he could just go off and find mobs so as to die. If an NPC (Henchman or Hero) and there were no mobs in range, the players were stuck. It was also possible to res zerg in normal mode, though the life and energy penalties could drastically reduce a party's effectiveness.

Which is better? The two games are different. Armor damage would be much less punitive in GW than the life/energy penalty. There is no universal energy mechanic in GW2, and a life penalty might have little effect as long as the player can avoid big hits using active defenses. Such a penalty would be underwhelming in GW2. That said, GW DP could in some circumstance result in edge-of-the-seat tension in lengthy instances, at least before the implementation of DP reducing consumables. GW2's armor damage is at best a mild annoyance with little to no impact on game play.

[Poormany.4507]

GW1's system forced you to restart entire instances and reset their mobs/quests due to too high DP for all members in the party, which was horribly annoying to deal with in maps such as those in Winds of Change, where enemy mobs were oftentimes very difficult and/or had quests involving escorts with tank npcs who ran around and drew in mobs so you were facing multiple strong mobs at a time.

I like GW2's system better, as you can just continue where you left off if you die, even if you have no armor left to lose.

[Metasynaptic.1093]

Lol, nice biased questions. Anet moved away from death penalty because death was already a penalty. Death penalty as implemented in gw1 has no place here.