REQUEST: The option to turn off health regeneration

[Danikat.8537]

I like the idea of a hardmode or challenge mode. My latest temporary character is actually doing one version of that (no deaths allowed, only white gear, no buffs or XP tomes/scrolls, no waypoints). But I'm not sure it's worth the trouble of adding something to the game to facilitate it when I think it would only be a minority of players who would be interested.

I'm also not convinced that simply disabling health regeneration would mean much in a game where healing spells can be used infinitely. Health regeneration is already disabled in combat, so it wouldn't make any difference within a battle and if you're able to get out of combat it's just a matter of using your healing skill, waiting for it to recharge and then using it again until you're back at full health. It would slow you down but I'm not convinced it would be any harder and certainly wouldn't be more fun.

I'm not really a fan of health regenerating automatically outside of combat in general (although it does depend on the game) but I think it needs to be embedded in the game design to have any real impact, mainly in that other sources of healing also need to be limited. For example in Baldur's Gate your health doesn't regenerate automatically, healing spells (and all others) can only be used once per spell slot before you have to rest to regenerate them and stocking up on healing potions can be very expensive. But even then all it really means is I end up sleeping more frequently, even if my party isn't exhausted, so they can regenerate some health and get their skills back. There's a bit of a trade-off in trying to decide how many battles I can push through before I sleep, but it doesn't make a huge difference over all and the only consequence if I take no risks and rest after every battle is it takes forever to get anything done.

@Mikali.9651 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:I believe that this suggestion would only "benefit" a very small niche of players. I would not want Anet to spend resources in implementing such a thing. I would prefer playable content that "benefits" a much larger portion of the player base.

That's the idea. To have a choice to play a bit harder version of the game for those who seek a more challenging environment.

Also, it is a really easy implementation, there is no such thing as "spending resources" as in a way it would take away from other things. It is really an easy option to create, not taking more than a few minutes.

The technical aspect of disabling regeneration for a character might be quick to do. The part which would be more difficult and take more time is the user interface for it. How does a player get access to this option? How does the game communicate what it does?

Is it something that has to be set during character creation, so it's permanently on for that character? If so that might be quite time consuming as the character creation process in this game has a lot of unique art and effects and all of those will need to be created. Is it something in the Options menu? If so how do you make sure it only applies to the one character and not all of them? Is it on the Hero panel somewhere? Where? (Either of these options still needs someone to design the text, checkbox etc. and find a way to fit it into the existing menu.)

On a related note is it a concern that a simple checkbox means players could turn it on and off at will? What if someone is playing this 'hard mode' then simply turns it off any time they find it actually makes the game more difficult? Does there need to be a way to prevent that? If it can't be turned off how many warnings and how clear do they need to be to stop someone turning it on by accident and then complaining to support that their character is broken? What process should support follow when (not if, when) that happens?

Just from that list we're talking about:1) A programmer doing the technical work behind the scenes to set up the actual code.2) A UI designer working out where the option should appear and what it should look like.3) Localisation staff working out how to translate it into 3 other languages, then potentially going back to the UI designer and getting them to change what they've done because there's not enough space for the text in other languages.4) Potentially an artist creating new icons and effects.6) Someone to project manage all of the above to make sure it gets done but doesn't take too much time away from other things.5) QA to test that this works as intended, including checking how it interacts with everything else in the game which can affect your health. Then feeding back to the staff who made it and maybe making adjustments.6) A support manager needs to decide and then write up a process for support staff to help players who turn it on by accident and then don't know why their character doesn't heal automatically.7) A marketing/community person needs to write up something for the patch notes about this being added and maybe a news item for the main site. They need to discuss with team leads how much attention this gets. What else is coming up at the same time? Is it a quiet time when it might be worth getting someone to do a live stream about hard mode, or will it just be a footnote in the next patch? Or something in between?8) All of that info also needs to be localised into another 3 languages.

So already we're talking about 10 people at least, and even if they only spend 20 minutes each there is still a cost to that, and it's still time they can't spend doing something else, which means someone else's most desired change doesn't get done, or is delayed, even if it's also really quick and easy.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I never understood the point of the instant health regeneration in this game. Players already have access to a ton of healing, and the boon Regeneration--they should be required to use them even OOC instead of magic shield-I mean life regeneration.

I'm an organic life form, not a mech suit.

[Kurrilino.2706]

I don't even have an opinion of yes or no.

But if that goes through you will face an avalanche of request from people customizing their experience.I would demand that i want the Gw1 fighting system back.And how would they argue to grant the request for one but deny the request of others.

In general it wouldn't tackle the problem people have with the game.It's always the same request. We want the fights more creative and challenging.A-Net: Ok here you go... More hitpoints and less timer.Players: uhm.... yeah right

[Infusion.7149]

Not sure why you want more "busywork"

[Danikat.8537]

@Hannelore.8153 said:I never understood the point of the instant health regeneration in this game. Players already have access to a ton of healing, and the boon Regeneration--they should be required to use them even OOC instead of magic shield-I mean life regeneration.

I'm an organic life form, not a mech suit.

I don't know, but my guess is it's for the same reason raised in a lot of the replies to this topic. Removing automatic health regeneration outside of combat doesn't make the game harder or more interesting, it just means after a battle you need to stand around using your healing skill, waiting for it to recharge and then using it again until your health is back to 100%. So there's not really any reason not to have it, and it saves players a little bit of time.

As I said earlier I'm not a big fan of it, in any game, because it does seem unrealistic to heal that fast. (Although living things will heal faster than mechanics in real life. About a year ago I tripped while holding my phone. Cracked the phone screen and tore some skin off my hand. At the time my hand was worse off than my phone, but just a few weeks later my hand looked fine and a year on my phone is still just as cracked.) But when I try to consider alternatives that would be more realistic they always involve either annoying mechanics, like waiting to use healing skills over and over or stocking up on masses of healing items, or big changes to the way the game is designed so that's not an option.

I think it's probably one of those things which needs to be decided very early on so it can be considered in all other aspects of the game's design. To solve the problem in GW2 that if your health didn't regenerate you could simply wait to keep using your healing skill you'd have to re-work the entire way the skill system works.

[maddoctor.2738]

@Hannelore.8153 said:I never understood the point of the instant health regeneration in this game. Players already have access to a ton of healing, and the boon Regeneration--they should be required to use them even OOC instead of magic shield-I mean life regeneration.

I'm an organic life form, not a mech suit.

The good old days of mmorpgs when you needed to sit down and relax after each fight to regenerate your health. Or not so good days as the purpose of regenerating health after combat is to reduce downtime between battles. Yes we have ways to replenish health but that would mean standing still to use them after some fights, less fighting, more boredom.

[WorldofBay.8160]

@Kulvar.1239 said:If you play Necromancer with 100% Condition Duration and Corruptions, you can keep yourself with a condition permanently and never be out of combat. :D

rev has a trait that applys permanent torment, even out of combat, so you never leave combat again, but that also forces you on a condi traitline you might not want to use.

[Khailyn.6248]

@"notebene.3190" said:I would have no use for the thing myself, but was just wondering if there wasn't a way they could leverage some existing mechanics in game to do it with relatively low cost? Maybe drinks or food (cooking!) that apply random or specific debuffs to you periodically that effectively suppress specific (or random) boons? Last a period of time, and a drink/food to clear them.

This is pretty much the only way i can see to do it with minimal dev time. have a potion or food item that gives the player health degeneration, a stronger poison like effect which nerfs incoming healing or both in the case of Agony. Like other posters here have said, this would affect a very very very small amount of players (if you want a challenge fighting mobs wear white armor or none at all) so not much time should be spent on it.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Health_degenerationhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Agony

[kharmin.7683]

@maddoctor.2738 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:I never understood the point of the instant health regeneration in this game. Players already have access to a ton of healing, and the boon Regeneration--they should be required to use them even OOC instead of magic shield-I mean life regeneration.

I'm an organic life form, not a mech suit.

The good old days of mmorpgs when you needed to sit down and relax after each fight to regenerate your health. Or not so good days as the purpose of regenerating health after combat is to reduce downtime between battles. Yes we have ways to replenish health but that would mean standing still to use them after some fights, less fighting, more boredom.

How could this be boring? Try sitting around in PoF after fighting and see if you get the chance to use your healing OOC without getting mobbed again. Fun times!

[ArchonWing.9480]

It could be like a challenge mote with access to special reward and achievements.

Having an "Open World+" without segregating maps would be good for players that find open world too easy but would rather not handle instanced content. The gap between pve modes is still too great and progression could become smoother without pressure from anyone else.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Hannelore.8153 said:I never understood the point of the instant health regeneration in this game. Players already have access to a ton of healing, and the boon Regeneration--they should be required to use them even OOC instead of magic shield-I mean life regeneration.

I'm an organic life form, not a mech suit.

Have you actually played a game with that mechanic?

Having to /sit(because sitting gave higher regen rate for both HP and MP) after every fight was a crappy experience. The interval could be stretched by having a priest deal with the HP regen but then your priest runs out of MP as well ... and you are back to watching green and blue numbers pop up

Staring at your screen watching green and blue number pop up is not a very entertaining experience

[Trise.2865]

I don't think you understand how big a hurdle you're placing here, for content that's based around players having max HP at the start of each encounter.

You don't have as much healing as you think you do.

[Cuks.8241]

Basically always in combat mode.I would prefer the hardcore mode where if your character dies, it is permanent death. Always liked those in games. There should definitely be a super uber title if you finish SAB in hardcore mode.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Trise.2865 said:I don't think you understand how big a hurdle you're placing here, for content that's based around players having max HP at the start of each encounter.

You don't have as much healing as you think you do.

It would mean having to wait on the CD for your heal skill

@Cuks.8241 said:Basically always in combat mode.

Yes but no since that would also disable mounts as well which would be a totally different discussion

[Rauderi.8706]

Don't use anything that gives health. "Problem" solved.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:I never understood the point of the instant health regeneration in this game. Players already have access to a ton of healing, and the boon Regeneration--they should be required to use them even OOC instead of magic shield-I mean life regeneration.

I'm an organic life form, not a mech suit.

Have you actually played a game with that mechanic?

Having to /sit(because sitting gave higher regen rate for both HP and MP) after every fight was a crappy experience. The interval could be stretched by having a priest deal with the HP regen but then your priest runs out of MP as well ... and you are back to watching green and blue numbers pop up

Staring at your screen watching green and blue number pop up is not a very entertaining experience

Yes, I played a game that utilised it for 7+ years. In particular, having to sit to regen health and mana without a mage to restore it was a significant balance factor in RvR battles and made the combat much more fulfilling than GW2 since people had to thinks strategically, find hiding places, and take breaks (which made them vulnerable to roamers) instead of just infinite blob forever.

It also made people defend objectives instead of constantly flipping them because open-field fights were exhausting and having a safe place to recupperate was vital to the outcome of the battle.

[phokus.8934]

No.........

[saerni.2584]

Just pick a really bad heal. It’s possible to play less effective build without adding in a new game “feature.”

[Westenev.5289]

I personally would like the ability to turn off autoheal as a personal challenge - even if it were only implimented as a fractal instability. Healing so soon after combat kind of makes every near death escape feel... well... anticlimatic.

[Obliviscaris.6937]

I'm not usually one to say "More time is better spent elsewhere" but I'm going to be one to say: More time is better spent elsewhere.For the devs: Literally elsewhere.For the players wanting this: Perhaps another game.

[Galmac.4680]

By the way, as software developer (completely other things) Iknow that this is NOT just a job of five minutes. Regeneration and life is coming from several sources, you have to add at all of them this new option, without impact on other code parts (and you won't believe what crazy connections could exist in old code!), have this well tested (by us players, I know).

[Zephire.8049]

@Galmac.4680 said:By the way, as software developer (completely other things) Iknow that this is NOT just a job of five minutes. Regeneration and life is coming from several sources, you have to add at all of them this new option, without impact on other code parts (and you won't believe what crazy connections could exist in old code!), have this well tested (by us players, I know).

Whenever I hear about strange connections in MMO code, I think of how the starter backpack in WoW can't be removed or upgraded because somewhere at some time, someone accidentally made it a key part of the entire game, so if the starter backpack gets changed, the game no longer works.

I think the most efficient and safest way to do what the OP is asking is to actually have a debuff that prevents health gain (I want to say there's a story mission with such a debuff?) and have an option to turn that on, but that still requires UI work and would require coming up for rules for when it can be turned on and off. There's also the very real chance that it would bug encounters or make it easy to exploit bosses.

And again the question is why would Anet spend time and resources on an option few would use (fewer than the action cam or making keys go into the wallet, and both of those were worked on by one person) and could create issues in the current game or down the line? There are already ways to have a harder experience in GW2 and while you can't control it if someone shows up and starts giving you regen, you can control what profession you play, what traits you have, what runes you have, and what skills you use.

Maybe a dev will take on such a thing as a labour of love, but outside of that I don't see it taking priority over literally everything else.

[Kronos.3695]

"I think it is a simple request to implement"

Thinking != knowning.I am a software engineer and I assure you that I can't know nor guess how ArenaNet implemented some things or how solid and modular their software is, so I won't ever say that something is easy to do, because it always depends on the environment and its development history.

Remember that when you "think" of something :)

[Danikat.8537]

@Hannelore.8153 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:I never understood the point of the instant health regeneration in this game. Players already have access to a ton of healing, and the boon Regeneration--they should be required to use them even OOC instead of magic shield-I mean life regeneration.

I'm an organic life form, not a mech suit.

Have you actually played a game with that mechanic?

Having to /sit(because sitting gave higher regen rate for both HP and MP) after every fight was a crappy experience. The interval could be stretched by having a priest deal with the HP regen but then your priest runs out of MP as well ... and you are back to watching green and blue numbers pop up

Staring at your screen watching green and blue number pop up is not a very entertaining experience

Yes, I played a game that utilised it for 7+ years. In particular, having to sit to regen health and mana without a mage to restore it was a significant balance factor in RvR battles and made the combat much more fulfilling than GW2 since people had to thinks strategically, find hiding places, and take breaks (which made them vulnerable to roamers) instead of just infinite blob forever.

It also made people defend objectives instead of constantly flipping them because open-field fights were exhausting and having a safe place to recupperate was vital to the outcome of the battle.

But in GW2 your health only regenerates automatically when you're out of combat, so if you're relying on that you'd have to do exactly the same thing - get far enough away from the battle that you're out of combat (without anyone seeing and following you) and then stay there until it's regenerated before you can go back. It doesn't help you survive longer in combat because it's not active in combat.

The difference is that in GW2 everyone has a dedicated healing skill plus numerous options for traits, other skills, sigils etc. that heal, add the regeneration buff, life steal or otherwise give you health in combat. Of course there's trade-off there - every skill, trait, sigil etc. used for healing is one that can't be used for damage or other effects, but you probably don't need all of them anyway.

Taking all of that away would be a much bigger change which would require redesigning and rebalancing a lot of the game, and if you leave healing skills for certain professions then basically all you've achieved is turning GW2 into yet another trinity game where every group needs to insist on one person playing a dedicated healer.

[Tyncale.1629]

@"kharmin.7683" said:I believe that this suggestion would only "benefit" a very small niche of players. I would not want Anet to spend resources in implementing such a thing. I would prefer playable content that "benefits" a much larger portion of the player base.

Exactly, Anet will think twice before doing this , even if it would be as simple as implementing a toggle. They already have enough splits and Elitist behavior in the playerbase for them to create a new Niche for people who probably would think they are "The best of the best of the best! SIR!"

And Anet will NEVER tie Achievements to such a thing, for the very same reason.