Norn shouldnt just be.....tall humans.

[georgessj.4198]

Norn deserve to be a separate race. Give their elite skills a chance.....make them playable for once, 240 cooldown with 30 secs duration is just insane has any of you ever seen a norn using a shapesift elite skill? Im not asking for something that breaks the game or thats buffing the race, even a looks only nornish update would do.

[Zoid.2568]

I would use shapeshift If it was at least 120 sec cd.

[Sobx.1758]

"buff racial elite skills""I'm not asking to buff a race"ok :p

But yeah, they are pretty close appearance-wise.

[Game of Bones.8975]

When all races are "equal" (aside from their racial elite skills), it really makes no difference what they look like or act like.There's no combat bonuses or negatives.Even a Norn male is as strong as an Asura female.

[Zephire.8049]

Unfortunately when it comes to multiplayer games like MMOs, sometimes game balance takes priority over lore and aesthetics.

Canonically norn are far taller than they appear in-game but to not cause issues amongst players, they've been shortened. Charr have also been modified to have long, forever-extended claws in the game for visual reasons. Maps in-game are also a fraction of the size Tyria actually is because otherwise it would be long stretches of nothing for players. While it would be cool to have the norn shapeshifting ability always available or on a shorter CD given how norn can shapeshift in lore, that skill gives stat bonuses meaning for it to be a flavour skill it would need to lose those bonuses and become purely visual.

You could argue for a separate skill or tonic that is purely visual, but Anet isn't going to touch one racial skill and leave the others untouched unless it's to nerf something affecting the meta. They did that with one or two of the asura racials several years ago and the norn bear racial is still part of a meme build in PvP and WvW so any reduction of CD will possibly make that build go from meme to meta.

And from the beginning Anet did not want one's race to affect viability, hence why all racial skills are niche to outright useless. They exist to be flavour and nothing more since GW2 isn't a single-player game.

All that said, I would be in favour of having visuals tied to the player character's race. Nothing's been done with cultural armour in years (with the exception of charr getting a couple helms) and if they can find a way to get tonics to work with the mount system, adding a slot for cultural tonics may allow for a way to do what you're looking for without it affecting gameplay.

[Einlanzer.1627]

Agreed. I've always felt the norn design in GW2 was pretty off the mark & they need a bit of a redesign. They should look and feel more like a proper giant race and less like huge but disproportionately weird humans with oddly pretty faces.

[Infusion.7149]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/114395/should-norn-get-an-update

Same thread more or less. They haven't been changed this far in and are unlikely to realize major changes this late.

My has tattoos and is far more fit than a human.

[firedragon.8953]

As a norn warrior, I at least wish the "Rampage" skill turned me into a bear.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

I normally play norn but the cool down on the shape shift keeps me from using the skills. I'd like to see a revamp of all racial skills along with a rework of the skill bar. I suggested this a long time ago. Move healing to the health meter to free up the skill slot then drop all the racial skills on that slot. It would force players to use a racial skill. I'd like to see a new norn skill added. It would play that horn tone that plays in Hoelbrak and generate fear along with might. They could call it Might of the norn.

I'd like to see all races get non-weapon melee combat skills that could be swapped in like a weapon swap. Norn could be brute type skills along with a beer breath attack, humans a sort of martial art skill set, charr get claw and tail slash skills, asura get jumping and a slash skill to match their digger hands, sylvari could get poison, pollen and vine binds.

[The Boz.2038]

Daily reminder that Norn racial elites are the only ones that see any play anywhere, and it is in WvW, of all places ;)

[mercury ranique.2170]

Changing the looks is not going to happen with any existing race.With looks it is that some people prefer one look and other the other. There will be people who main a norn who will not be happy with the new look.You choose a race based on how they look now in the game and based on the options in character selection about how they look. By changing this, people are entitled to have a free full make over kit, including a race change. The later is not currently existing and is likely very difficult to implement.

So it is not going to happen.

[Omega.6801]

@"Game of Bones.8975" said:When all races are "equal" (aside from their racial elite skills), it really makes no difference what they look like or act like.There's no combat bonuses or negatives.Even a Norn male is as strong as an Asura female.

Which is a good thing, never forget that.

[kharmin.7683]

@"Zephire.8049" said:Unfortunately when it comes to multiplayer games like MMOs, sometimes game balance takes priority over lore and aesthetics.

Canonically norn are far taller than they appear in-game but to not cause issues amongst players, they've been shortened. Charr have also been modified to have long, forever-extended claws in the game for visual reasons. Maps in-game are also a fraction of the size Tyria actually is because otherwise it would be long stretches of nothing for players. While it would be cool to have the norn shapeshifting ability always available or on a shorter CD given how norn can shapeshift in lore, that skill gives stat bonuses meaning for it to be a flavour skill it would need to lose those bonuses and become purely visual.I've recently started using the embiggening tonic for my norn. Makes it more lore-friendly IMO

All that said, I would be in favour of having visuals tied to the player character's race. Nothing's been done with cultural armour in years (with the exception of charr getting a couple helms) and if they can find a way to get tonics to work with the mount system, adding a slot for cultural tonics may allow for a way to do what you're looking for without it affecting gameplay.Unfortunately, tonics and mounts are "transforms" so they don't work together. Not sure Anet is willing/able to completely change mounts or tonics to be something different at this point.

[Xanadrine.4352]

I wish norns could click on off the transformations, from just a plying in character perspective. Maybe make it so the transform has no cd but is just cosmetic. I can hear the outrage from wvw/pvp now /sighIts just that why does everything have to have combat effects maybe i just want to run around as a bear, having played druid in wow loved the fact that i could shapeshift into many animals and stay in forms. Its not always bout combat, its about the fun of running around as catbeartree.

[Blocki.4931]

Racial skills are not the place for such a change.

[Xanadrine.4352]

@Blocki.4931 said:Racial skills are not the place for such a change.

Thats fine I was just getting melancholy and wishful. Oh how about druids getting a animal form, that makes sense

[Eekasqueak.7850]

@Zuldari.3940 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:Racial skills are not the place for such a change.

Thats fine I was just getting melancholy and wishful. Oh how about druids getting a animal form, that makes sense

Would work better with soulbeast given they already have that merge with pet thing.

[Dadnir.5038]

@The Boz.2038 said:Daily reminder that Norn racial elites are the only ones that see any play anywhere, and it is in WvW, of all places ;)

I still use take root (sylvari) in PvE. It's a nice 3s invuln with turret spawn that apply bleed. And I'd 100% use reaper of grenth (human) if it had a 90s CD instead of a 180s CD. I think I still see hounds of balthasar used from time to time as well (never used it personally thought).

[Teratus.2859]

We've had this discussion a few times, Norn are not just "big humans" they are built quite differently despite cosmetic similarities.In a way I guess the best comparison I could make is that the physical cosmetic differences between Humans and Norn are similar to the cosmetic differences between a Chimpanzee and a Gorilla.. they look similar but they're really not and that's where the similarities end.

Humans and Norn are not genetically related.. they have no common ancestor's or anything like that at all because Humans are aliens to Tyria.If anything Norn and Kodan are the ones that share a common ancestor.

But yes I am pro fixing the racial skills and making them useful in the open world.I don't like that races get shafted for balance etc, your race should matter more than just being a cosmetic effect.

[Xanadrine.4352]

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Zuldari.3940 said:

@Blocki.4931 said:Racial skills are not the place for such a change.

Thats fine I was just getting melancholy and wishful. Oh how about druids getting a animal form, that makes sense

Would work better with soulbeast given they already have that merge with pet thing.

I'll take it!!

[zityz.6089]

The way they fixed the skill with Braham so that it was always available on the action bar is how the norn should all be. Everything about it felt great! Granted, Braham was my main which is a mesmer and not playing him as a Guardian, which threw me off, but how they had the transformation adjusted so that it didn't interfere with the elite skill, was fantastic. I wouldn't mind a re-adjustment for norns.

Realistically, it wont happen, but one can dream.

[Substance E.4852]

@"Einlanzer.1627" said:Agreed. I've always felt the norn design in GW2 was pretty off the mark & they need a bit of a redesign. They should look and feel more like a proper giant race and less like huge but disproportionately weird humans with oddly pretty faces.

That's pretty much what giants are unless you want them to look like the Jotun or something in which case all that will accomplish is much fewer people rolling a Norn character

Anet could make them more "bestial" or w/e but that just sort of feels like it's stepping on the Charr's toes and something more appropriate to a game where the "Orc Race" is actual orcs and not buffalo cat people

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@Zephire.8049 said:Canonically norn are far taller than they appear in-game but to not cause issues amongst players, they've been shortened.

I don't believe that this statement to be accurate, the wiki says that the typical Norn is nine feet tall, and that does appear to be reflected in game.

[Zephire.8049]

@The Greyhawk.9107 said:

@Zephire.8049 said:Canonically norn are far taller than they appear in-game but to not cause issues amongst players, they've been shortened.

I don't believe that this statement to be accurate, the wiki says that the typical Norn is nine feet tall, and that does appear to be reflected in game.

True, when people play at max height but it's the sheer range that's an issue. Max height norn are around 9ft or so, yes, but players can have norn that are slightly taller than a max height human, so there's a ~2.5ft range difference. Some difference is to be expected but instead of a range of ~7.5ft-10.5ft (which would put 9ft right in the middle AKA average), norn can be human height. Go with shortest height and a slim build and it's impossible to tell under armour if a character is norn or human.

No adult norn in lore is that short yet players still have the option to be human-sized for gameplay reasons and aesthetic.

[Konrad Curze.5130]