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What would bring more players regularly to DRMs?

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  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    For me it has nothing to do with droprates.

    More so about GW2 vibes with missions, dungeons, etc.
    GW2 vibe is, people hate those that don't know the mission.
    You gotta have DKP, you gotta have watched youtube videos beforehand

    ALSO
    GW2 making missions, dungeons, fractals, too dang long.
    People are wanting more fast pace, not 20+ minutes to do something.

    ALSO
    Too much stuff to grind
    Gotta do daily fractal
    Gotta do daily T4 story
    Gotta do daily Icebrood saga
    Gotta do daily daily
    Too much kitten gotta do,
    who has time for DRM when you have all this other kitten GOTTA do

    Gotta work on my legendary
    Gotta work on my skyscale
    Gotta do guild missions

    Thing is some of this stuff, people only have time for one of em, like Fractals, usually takes about an hour unless you some pro and have friends you do it with. PUGs usually take an hour. And they burn you out.

    ALSO
    MMO trifecta
    sure it maybe not healer tank, but its GW2 trifecta, you aint that healerbrand or whatever, nobody wants you.
    Nobody wants to deal with looking at LFG, I aint a healerbrand but thats all I see people want, screw this, kitten DRM.
    Got a lotta other stuff to do than be depressed I'm not healerbrand and can't find a group for DRM.

    Then do them solo.

    You read what I said?
    1. Takes too long was one of them

    How does doing it solo help that?

    The other stuff I said
    1. Too much stuff (daily) to do in game
    2. Limited time (a lot of people say "well back as kid I had so much time, now I don't have much time")
    3. GW2 is similar to MMO trifecta, you need to be certain profession, like healerbrand or whatever is flavor now
    Don't need a healer and tank.... Well look whats happening, need a healer. Need somebody who gives boons now, trifecta

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    For me it has nothing to do with droprates.

    More so about GW2 vibes with missions, dungeons, etc.
    GW2 vibe is, people hate those that don't know the mission.
    You gotta have DKP, you gotta have watched youtube videos beforehand

    ALSO
    GW2 making missions, dungeons, fractals, too dang long.
    People are wanting more fast pace, not 20+ minutes to do something.

    ALSO
    Too much stuff to grind
    Gotta do daily fractal
    Gotta do daily T4 story
    Gotta do daily Icebrood saga
    Gotta do daily daily
    Too much kitten gotta do,
    who has time for DRM when you have all this other kitten GOTTA do

    Gotta work on my legendary
    Gotta work on my skyscale
    Gotta do guild missions

    Thing is some of this stuff, people only have time for one of em, like Fractals, usually takes about an hour unless you some pro and have friends you do it with. PUGs usually take an hour. And they burn you out.

    ALSO
    MMO trifecta
    sure it maybe not healer tank, but its GW2 trifecta, you aint that healerbrand or whatever, nobody wants you.
    Nobody wants to deal with looking at LFG, I aint a healerbrand but thats all I see people want, screw this, kitten DRM.
    Got a lotta other stuff to do than be depressed I'm not healerbrand and can't find a group for DRM.

    What does this have to do with the OP’s issue?

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    For me it has nothing to do with droprates.

    More so about GW2 vibes with missions, dungeons, etc.
    GW2 vibe is, people hate those that don't know the mission.
    You gotta have DKP, you gotta have watched youtube videos beforehand

    ALSO
    GW2 making missions, dungeons, fractals, too dang long.
    People are wanting more fast pace, not 20+ minutes to do something.

    ALSO
    Too much stuff to grind
    Gotta do daily fractal
    Gotta do daily T4 story
    Gotta do daily Icebrood saga
    Gotta do daily daily
    Too much kitten gotta do,
    who has time for DRM when you have all this other kitten GOTTA do

    Gotta work on my legendary
    Gotta work on my skyscale
    Gotta do guild missions

    Thing is some of this stuff, people only have time for one of em, like Fractals, usually takes about an hour unless you some pro and have friends you do it with. PUGs usually take an hour. And they burn you out.

    ALSO
    MMO trifecta
    sure it maybe not healer tank, but its GW2 trifecta, you aint that healerbrand or whatever, nobody wants you.
    Nobody wants to deal with looking at LFG, I aint a healerbrand but thats all I see people want, screw this, kitten DRM.
    Got a lotta other stuff to do than be depressed I'm not healerbrand and can't find a group for DRM.

    What does this have to do with the OP’s issue?

    @Fleabite.7528 said:

    • Significantly increase the droprate for the Volcanic Stormcaller weapons. Nobody I've run DRMs with has ever received one, reflected in the 300-400g TP price - valuing this collection (complete with Mastery point) at an insane 4,800-6,000 gold. So please double, or even triple, the present pitiful drop rate.
    • Change the Prismatium Crystals home node drop to 3 a day like every other node, not the present 2.
    • Having Prismatium Crystals account bound is probably fine - but forcing players into a glacier-slow daily grind is not. Each of the 16 Dragon Slayer weapons takes 30 crystals. That's 480 crystals in total needed for the collection. Just relying on the daily node (if you can afford the 50g upfront) would take eight months of grind. Even adding the (capped) crystals from daily DRM runs will still take you more than 30 days of tedious grind. Again, consider boosting the DRM drop rate - or give an extra bonus for running three a day (whether regular or CM)
    • Allow craftable Prismatium Ingots to be sold on the TP. Players should be abler to grind for profit, if they choose.

    What else would incentivise you to run more DRMs?

    Like I said, too much dailies, too much other things to do. Doing the dailies alone takes hours.
    This game has got to point where you do what you do for fun.

    So events like DRM, even though its unique, people got other stuff to do rather than do this.
    Also goes in factor dungeons, fractals, WB, everything, they making the time to complete so long, it brings in "do I really want to spend a lotta time of doing this"

    I haven't really done a DRM, but my vibe on it, its a dungeon, they take a lotta time, I got other stuff to worry about rather than this limited time DRM.
    Dungeon, fractal, etc. My mindset in this game "takes a lotta time, I have to commit to it"

    Raids btw, they just as short as dungeons and fractals. idk why they think dungeons and fractals have to take so long.
    I sure miss days.
    Fractal
    Molten Boss I think it was
    Kill lava mini boss quickly
    BAM at boss fight
    under 2 minutes its over

    I sure miss days.
    CoF
    4 warriors and a mesmer
    BAM done in 4 mins or less

    Nowdays
    Clear trash add more trash add even more trash finally at boss fight, BAM done
    Just as long as raids

    Raids are too short, and fractals dungeons are too long.
    DRM, thats fractal dungeon category, too dang long.

    I'm working on skyscale
    I have guild event coming up
    I enjoy PvP
    I enjoy racing
    I like rewards from fractals
    I enjoy WvW every now and then (if a commander is up, WvW is really Zerg vs Zerg, it sucks solo)

    I have progression to do, achievements to do
    time for DRM? who has time for that
    Its a dungeon/fractal category, meaning it takes up a lotta time

    You need a trifecta
    "lfg says healerbrands and chronos ONLY"
    well I aint no healerbrand nor chrono

    I aint gonna be depressed looking at this, I'm gonna do many other plethora of stuff or try and get dailies done

    Because dailies take up HOURS

    The answer lies in many of these issues
    Make it shorter
    Better rewards
    Don't need a trifecta (healerbrands and boon profession like chrono)
    I want group fast, it aint gonna be fast if I'm not part of the 2 main trifecta (healerbrand or meta boon profession, was chrono)

    Its a limited time content

    If its too long and once you get reward its over, then of course no one gonna do.
    If its too long and have to grind for reward, well it better be very good, because people have limited time, and usually can't beat FRACTAL rewards. Which also takes up time, moreso, energy, I sure feel like I need to take a break after fractals, I aint gonna do some DRM.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Too long, too repetitive, bubkiss rewards, and factions having little to no impact. I was hoping for them to be more in line to fractals instabilities (but reversed) in how much they impact gameplay, but they just dont.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2020

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    1. Too much stuff (daily) to do in game

    for many people is ok. If someone can't play 8+ hours per day - then choose that actual. Try limit other is bad idea.

    1. Limited time (a lot of people say "well back as kid I had so much time, now I don't have much time")

    people who have limited time should do limited content, or don't play some part of games at all ... I know people who play 2-5 pvp matches per day only. And skip other content. Someone do ode two meta only. Someone play only LS.

    1. GW2 is similar to MMO trifecta, you need to be certain profession, like healerbrand or whatever is flavor now

    ? it ok. gw2 is mmo game.

    Don't need a healer and tank.... Well look whats happening, need a healer. Need somebody who gives boons now, trifecta

    someone need nurse, someone not. People do fractal 100 cm solo, someone dead whit hfb.

  • uberkingkong.8041uberkingkong.8041 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2020

    @lare.5129 said:

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    1. Too much stuff (daily) to do in game

    for many people is ok. If someone can't play 8+ hours per day - then choose that actual. Try limit other is bad idea.

    1. Limited time (a lot of people say "well back as kid I had so much time, now I don't have much time")

    people who have limited time should do limited content, or don't play some part of games at all ... I know people who play 2-5 pvp matches per day only. And skip other content. Someone do ode two meta only. Someone play only LS.

    1. GW2 is similar to MMO trifecta, you need to be certain profession, like healerbrand or whatever is flavor now

    ? it ok. gw2 is mmo game.

    Don't need a healer and tank.... Well look whats happening, need a healer. Need somebody who gives boons now, trifecta

    someone need nurse, someone not. People do fractal 100 cm solo, someone dead whit hfb.

    Yes,
    so basically you saying keep doing what I'm doing which is not to play DRM

    This thread wants to know how to get people to play it.
    Basically
    1. Make them compelteable in under 10 mins
    2. Its limited time content, make the rewards WAY better than every other daily

    Just because it may have a unique skin only towards it, doesn't mean I'm going to do it. Usually the skins they make lately not really so good.

    1. Make it fun
      If its fun, I really don't care too much about reward. Like roller beetle races in Maelstrom Brisbane, etc. I did every single achievement and kept doing the races because they were fun.
      DRM nobody does it? Is it fun? Rewards better than dailies? Takes too dang long?
      More than 10 mins is too dang long for me.

    Thats why fractals burns me out, some of them can be long.
    I have to get myself in the mood to do fractals due to how they went from good amount of time spent to do (Molten Alliance/Boss, go straight to boss and BAM done to 10 mins clearing trash and then boss, POINTLESS WASTE OF TIME)

    Thinking about it, a raid can be done faster than some fractals. Strikes can be done faster than some fractals.
    You think I want to do a DRM, I have no idea how long it takes to do, but I get vibe its LONG.

    These developers, I swear they spend a lotta manhours, deciding how to make trash in a fractal, and those manhours could be better spent.
    (I'm talking about Molten Boss, it was perfect the way before. I'm talking about Jade Maw, it was perfect the way before)

    Then they make Strikes (hrm should be fast), YEP thats how fractals should be too.

    Usually other games, they make RAIDS take hours of clearing trash, this game though, it makes raids quick and casual quests LONG. smh
    DRM, I aint got time for that baloney. I'd rather go racing in Brisbane Wildlands, or do a racing event over and over than clear kitten trash

    Why can't we have Dragon Response Racing, Dragon Response Delivery Driver?
    I aint got time for Dragon Response Trash Clearing, I'm doing other kitten

    I mention good ideas, then
    People always say "prefer the developers spend there time on better things"
    Developer "okay thank you, going to add some trash in Molten Boss, and add some trash in Jade Maw fractal"
    Developer "I'm doing good job spending time on better things yes? I'm going to add Mossman as a requirement to Swampland Fractal, no more bloomhunger or mossman, now you do both! Enjoy!"

    So much trash getting added to casual quests, thats why I aint never done DRM, but thats what I think of casual quests, and I aint going to spend my precious time on limited time content that has a lot of trash to run through. I do fractals when I'm in that mood.

    1. Have to join a group and they want perfection (must have healerbrand, chrono, druid, etc)
    2. Perfect group to do trash
    3. Perfect group to do boss
    4. Then get currency and what is it, to open a chest that has random gear?
    5. Don't get the random gear I wanted
    6. Screw this aint doing this anymore, at least in fractals I get relics, I get WHAT I WANT, not no random get lucky
    7. ... Oh yeah, I'm not sure if this is case, Don't have the ICEBROOD SAGA masteries???? Can't open friggin chest.
    8. Yeah ok, thats it, I aint doing this kitten, kitten DRM
    9. WAYYYY too much effort for random chance gear, and I get stuff I dont want, FOR WAYYY TOO MUCH EFFORT
    10. AND TAKES WAYYYYY too much time
    11. This aint, fun too..... Why could it not be.... You know....... A racing event??? A fun event like racing?
    12. Like I'm racing and if I'm too slow I get hit by a Dragon AOE, and I lose. What can be more fun than racing and knowing a dragon is behind me, and I have no room for error unless he will get me, and obliterate me. Thats fun

    What would make people do DRM?
    Ummmm.... Simple. Make it fun.
    Why rollerbeetle racing is fun.? Simple. Do you like fast cars? Do you know anybody who hates fast cars? Yeah everyone loves driving fast.

    What made games like Grand Theft Auto 3 so much fun?
    Driving in fast cars, being chased by police.

    DRM what would make it fun?
    Roller beetle racing, and if your too slow, too many mistakes the dragon chasing you obliterates you.
    Just like in GTA 3, you too slow, too many mistakes, the police get you and obliterates you. WASTED

    Thats how to make DRM fun.
    Clearing trash REPEATEDLY, is how you get people TO NOT DO DRMs.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    2. Its limited time content, make the rewards WAY better than every other daily

    It’s not limited time content.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @uberkingkong.8041 said:
    Yes,
    so basically you saying keep doing what I'm doing which is not to play DRM

    great choose! mostly no one can do all content always

    This thread wants to know how to get people to play it.

    no, we just say it is ok now or now. As for me very ok. Should we more attract itr ? NO way.

    1. Make them compelteable in under 10 mins

    it fast enough

    1. Its limited time content, make the rewards WAY better than every other daily

    it is no limited. You can do it each day 5 years if you want.

    Just because it may have a unique skin only towards it, doesn't mean I'm going to do it.

    this ok, that no for everyone. And good that not everyone do it, skins rare, price a good. If price drop till 1 gold - it realy no good.

    1. Make it fun

    already. It depend from you only.

    If its fun, I really don't care too much about reward.

    chance to drop 200-300 gold increase fun :)

    Thats why fractals burns me out, some of them can be long.

    I like fractals. But fractals not for evryone, and this is ok.

    1. Have to join a group and they want perfection (must have healerbrand, chrono, druid, etc)

    we do it mostly in 3 (trio): warrior, rev and thief. I don't worry about perfection;

    1. AND TAKES WAYYYYY too much time

    don't like - don't go. This is small part of LS. This is not uniq and only one main content.

    What would make people do DRM?

    no.

    Clearing trash REPEATEDLY, is how you get people TO NOT DO DRMs.

    this is part of pve. It should be fine for everyone

  • Make next DRMs more exciting. Don’t cookie cut. Make achievement collections for some exclusive ascended weapons, where you must do certain things in each DRM. Include trinkets or back items as purchasable using tyrian medals and prisantium or something like that.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Add accountbound versions of the volcanic weapons to the vendor for 150 tokens each. That way doing cm feels worth it because you will complete the collection faster. Currently the rewards for gold and bonze are the exact same, 1 ore if you have the dragon buff and progression towards the 3 daily. I do not understand how you can screw up a reward structure this bad. Just look at the runic armor set and copy that system.

  • @Healix.5819 said:

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

    • Actual XP earning again: I am on max Masteries and since Anet locked the rest, I earn ZERO xp doing them. (or any other Icebrood related content for that matter)

    They fixed that a while ago - when XP has nowhere else to go, it defaults to spirit shards. You're still leveling, it's just hidden.

    They did, yet they broke it again.
    I tested it. I ran the 3 adventures in Drizzlewood Coast. Each gives slightly over 100k XP when running gold.
    I managed gold on all 3, which is more than 300k XP.
    Considering in every other map, I get 1 spirit shard for 256k XP, it is unfortunately broken...
    The issue that was fixed was hiding the masteries that could not be completed yet, so that you can at least earn XP for spirit shards.
    And the upcomming locked masteries are... again... not hidden.

    Anet learns slow, too slow.

    So no more Drizzlewood, Bjora etc for me untill they fix it.

    And the sad part?
    I am not suprised AT ALL that they made the EXACT mistake again.

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

    @Healix.5819 said:

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

    • Actual XP earning again: I am on max Masteries and since Anet locked the rest, I earn ZERO xp doing them. (or any other Icebrood related content for that matter)

    They fixed that a while ago - when XP has nowhere else to go, it defaults to spirit shards. You're still leveling, it's just hidden.

    They did, yet they broke it again.

    I can only confirm it's working for me. I used a character in the core game to see what the bar is currently at, then another to do a Drizzlewood adventure - the bar increased (note the bar is shared).

  • DAN.7314DAN.7314 Member ✭✭✭

    I've been running Metrica CM solo each day 3 times for the daily crystals and for the gold chests. Have done this last 2 weeks. Prior to that I did normal mode 3x for the dailies. Also did 15 runs for the CM achievements when DRMs were first released. I have easily looted100 final chest rewards with maybe 2/3 being gold chests, and haven't seen a single weapon box drop. I can see why they are so expensive, but it's ridiculous to be part of a story achievement. I REALLY hope the tyrian seal currency gets some better things to buy (like account bound weapon versions) because that's about all you get asides the daily prismatic crystals.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DAN.7314 said:
    I've been running Metrica CM solo each day 3 times for the daily crystals and for the gold chests. Have done this last 2 weeks. Prior to that I did normal mode 3x for the dailies. Also did 15 runs for the CM achievements when DRMs were first released. I have easily looted100 final chest rewards with maybe 2/3 being gold chests, and haven't seen a single weapon box drop. I can see why they are so expensive, but it's ridiculous to be part of a story achievement. I REALLY hope the tyrian seal currency gets some better things to buy (like account bound weapon versions) because that's about all you get asides the daily prismatic crystals.

    That's pretty much why I stuck to doing normal DRMs after the achievements because I figured it wouldn't be worth my time and effort.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the waepons are ugly, and invest 2 legends worth gold to complete it? lolz.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I still don't understand why these volcanic weapons that are clearly superior to previous versions cannot be crafted like their other versions. I like the idea of them dropping, but only if you can craft them too.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Fractals work because of rotating dailies and instabilities, both of which bring a random challenge to the day. Currently, DRMs have nothing like this, so there's no reason to repeat them when its going to be exactly the same every time.

    (There's also way too much dialogue compared to Fractals, since they were designed as story missions.)

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 17k hours, 28k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Auramancer(PvE) & Terakura/Healbreaker(WvW) aka Sea of Sorrows Silver Assaulter [SUKI]
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  • @Healix.5819 said:

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

    @Healix.5819 said:

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

    • Actual XP earning again: I am on max Masteries and since Anet locked the rest, I earn ZERO xp doing them. (or any other Icebrood related content for that matter)

    They fixed that a while ago - when XP has nowhere else to go, it defaults to spirit shards. You're still leveling, it's just hidden.

    They did, yet they broke it again.

    I can only confirm it's working for me. I used a character in the core game to see what the bar is currently at, then another to do a Drizzlewood adventure - the bar increased (note the bar is shared).

    Wait so you get Core Tyria XP?
    That is new. In Icebrood my bar is zero and stays zero. I never seen an increase elsewhere in any other system.
    PoF has its own bar, HoT has it's own, Core has too, always been like that.
    Even after maxing masteries

    Gonna see if I can see the same, but gees, some consistency would be in place.

  • To echo what most people have said, the specific problems are rewards. I just have no need to replay them at the moment. I think the solution would be a structural overhaul to rewards.

    For example, do 9 DRMs per week and the reward is you get to pick a Volcanic weapon. In theory this would add a short term engagement for each player who is working to acquire a weapon, and then would keep people engaged for a longwhile while completing the collection. I hate that Icebrood Mastery icon and really want it moved to Collections, but if it were to stay I would want to get it finished. Having them drop after putting a lot of work in is similar to the Weekly Rewards for Raids and Fractals - it would still feel like a slog and grind but at least it will offer a viable solution for achieving that mastery point and it would certainly incentivise people to return.

    Otherwise, even just something like Prophet Shards. They're all contained in the same story arc, and it would be great if they even gave 1 - 3 per mission which would help people acquire ascended armor. And as a follow up, I don't think this devalues the shard drop rate from Strikes either as they're considerably shorter than the DRMs, and if you're just after crystals you could easily acquire them in Strikes. But at least adding them to DRMs would give some passive rewards you could grind out.

  • Mouse.7382Mouse.7382 Member ✭✭✭

    Due to real life, my time is limited, so I use what is alotted to what I enjoy most.

    Daily CM Fractals + T's. I usually will have enough time to do something else and DRM are not one of em. They are 3 recycles instances that are really boring--which I could get past, if they rewards were worth the tedious nature of em--sadly, they are not.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 23, 2020

    The knockdown skill of https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destroyer_of_the_Ironhammer_Line is frustrating.

    My ping fluctuates between 250 and 280. I can generally jump all the waves during tequatl - which I do daily - and I have not managed to jump over a single one of those waves from this boss. The best I can do is move out of range. The mechanic is incredibly frustrating, although it doesn't stop us getting gold (guild group). But the rewards are of low value and I don't find it fun.

    I purposely bring a distance character to these missions. I at least one melee player who has said they found the fights incredibly frustrating as melee. Are these designed for having any melee person in the group? You can breakbar from a distance, so you don't need melee for that.

    The NPCs to support us die so easily that I don't see the point of having them in the first place.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 24, 2020

    Run stability+aegis or play scourge/tempest/shortbow renegade/condi chrono to avoid being in melee range.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They are like "short fire damage thing"

    All 3 of them feel the same.

    I think I did 3 rounds before being done.

    Maybe if they had loot tables for interesting gear drops...

  • Solvar.7953Solvar.7953 Member ✭✭✭

    I see lots of comments of 'make rewards better', and while that would certain draw some players to it, I don't really think that is a good fix or necessarily a good direction to the game.
    Effectively what Anet is doing in that case is paying players to play poor content. This sounds like most jobs, where the employer is paying the employee to do something that they otherwise wouldn't do.
    Basing a game on that seems like a poor idea - mostly because at some point the players will realize that they could instead play game X, in which the content is actually enjoyable to play.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solvar.7953 said:
    I see lots of comments of 'make rewards better', and while that would certain draw some players to it, I don't really think that is a good fix or necessarily a good direction to the game.
    Effectively what Anet is doing in that case is paying players to play poor content. This sounds like most jobs, where the employer is paying the employee to do something that they otherwise wouldn't do.
    Basing a game on that seems like a poor idea - mostly because at some point the players will realize that they could instead play game X, in which the content is actually enjoyable to play.

    Then you have an issue with the whole genre of MMOs which generally have some repetition but it boils down to whether it is optional to be on an even footing or not. At least things usually don't die in one hit here (the definition of grind basically) and it's optional content as far as repeats (even the CM achievements are optional).

    Is the amount of Prismatium Crystal excessive for the weapons collection? Yes if you want to finish it all now. However, we know that there are more DRMs incoming at least until May 2021 when the 4th part of Icebrood Saga Champions is supposed to be released. One of my casual player friends with relatively high AP that more or less does openworld is half way through (~250 Prismatium Crystal) and they don't even grind this game really. Last I checked I'm at around 230 crystals and I haven't really been doing them diligently after the Crystal Bloom and Ebon Vanguard daily rewards were retired.

    If you look at it through the lens of "I have to finish the whole collection tomorrow" then you will have a different view than "it can be done at my leisure and we have a minimum of May 2021 to be finished with it". The main problem now is the rewards. The opportunity cost beyond the first one or two DRMs per day currently isn't there (third one is 1 bonus Prismatium Crystal) and upping rewards slightly while removing the annoying wait once all the pre-events are done would be a step in the right direction.

    Also the entire weapon collection is by definition optional because it doesn't even have mastery points associated with it unlike "Tengu Weapon Collector" or "Master of the Ancestral Forge" for example.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Making the NPCs more robust to damage would be a huge improvement.

  • Fleabite.7528Fleabite.7528 Member ✭✭✭

    DRMs are looking like dead content right now, despite being the current 'episode'. Zero in looking for groups in either Tyria or Champions after 30 mins of waiting. Other maps and LS episodes still busy.

    This needs an urgent fix. Because if the next instalment is as poor, I fear people will start drifting off - myself included.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fleabite.7528 said:
    DRMs are looking like dead content right now, despite being the current 'episode'. Zero in looking for groups in either Tyria or Champions after 30 mins of waiting. Other maps and LS episodes still busy.

    This needs an urgent fix. Because if the next instalment is as poor, I fear people will start drifting off - myself included.

    Do know that alot of people are doing wintersday stuff now since its time limited content

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Fleabite.7528 said:
    DRMs are looking like dead content right now, despite being the current 'episode'. Zero in looking for groups in either Tyria or Champions after 30 mins of waiting. Other maps and LS episodes still busy.

    This needs an urgent fix. Because if the next instalment is as poor, I fear people will start drifting off - myself included.

    Do know that alot of people are doing wintersday stuff now since its time limited content

    Yeah but all other stuff is running normally. You don't notice much difference with fracs and metas. Strikes are slow but strikes have been slow for a while and there just ain't enough of them.
    DRMs you can hardly see a group in lfg at all.
    I don't really care about rewards. They are just boring. Rehashed maps, annoying grouping system and just boredom, there's nothing interesting with them. No interesting mechanic, boring bosses with old designs, plenty of waiting.
    They put us in instance with mounts, they could do something fun with them. Like a mount chase segment or mounted charging attack. But no we get to whack destroyers and a bigger destroyer hp sponge.
    The only mechanic is "jump the wave". Oh but wait we did this million times already, oh we will just put in 5 times more waves, great everybody loves to jump the wave all the time.

  • @Cuks.8241 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Fleabite.7528 said:
    DRMs are looking like dead content right now, despite being the current 'episode'. Zero in looking for groups in either Tyria or Champions after 30 mins of waiting. Other maps and LS episodes still busy.

    This needs an urgent fix. Because if the next instalment is as poor, I fear people will start drifting off - myself included.

    Do know that alot of people are doing wintersday stuff now since its time limited content

    Yeah but all other stuff is running normally. You don't notice much difference with fracs and metas. Strikes are slow but strikes have been slow for a while and there just ain't enough of them.
    DRMs you can hardly see a group in lfg at all.

    because people are either doing public and don't care about lfg or do runs with guildmats and do not care about lfg?

    This is at least what I am doing - and some people I know.

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    Better rewards, not being boring as the three already in-game, better rewards again.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    The public DRMs have no issues or at least the metrica one doesn't. I think a number of people game up on doing CMs every day because the chance to get the weapon skin drop is so low.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2020

    Anet is asking too much of players again when it comes to crafting weapons. The rate of getting this new material is awful and the drop rate of those weapons that have an MP behind it is just the flies on that kitten cake.

    1. 2/3 DRMs are basicaly escort missions, which is... probably the most hated type of events in games history.
    2. It lacks real group content, like spliting people on a specific roles, mechanics, events. It's just another "we need healer, boons and DPS". Why? Throw it out, maybe give us "we need someone to do X event, 2 people for Y, 2 for Z mechanic".
    3. There is no progres on anything.

    Master of garbage builds and being useless.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In my opinion DRMs are a pretty good system and could be dramatically improved with just a few QOL changes around rewards and time.

    1. Fix the lfg bugs where you can only enter as a party, all that kitten where you join a squad then you have to leave so they can make a party and stuff. I haven’t been able to find a group for DRMs for a while so maybe they already fixed this?

    2. Make it so the first part auto completes after the goals are met - the timer should be a limit, not a mandatory amount of time. Alternatively, add more levels to the event and the more players accomplish the better their rewards are. For example, once you meet the initial goal of 25 destroyer kills, it bumps to 35. Put out 10 fires, it goes to 15. So on and so on, each level past the first you progress increases your rewards at the end.

    3. Speaking of rewards, the DRM-specific items need work. Firstly, there’s almost nothing to buy with the tokens. I assume this will get fixed with time, but anet needs to dramatically increase how much you can buy with them. Also, it would be nice if the volcanic weapons could be purchased for these tokens. They can come at a very high price to preserve the rarity if desired, in fact that would help with the token surplus problem. Any way to make it so things aren’t 100% RNG, no matter how far fetched the alternatives are.

    4. For future DRMs, add MORE destroyers. I know the current ones all got new attacks so they feel somewhat different, but you’d be shocked how much the model makes a difference. The new attacks count for almost nothing when you’re fighting nothing but the same guys we’ve had since 2012. New models, new enemy varieties is very important, and apparently anet is underestimating how big of a difference it makes. Especially when the enemies AND maps are old content.

    5. For the longer term future - keep the concept! Don’t drop it like seemingly every other game mode, please anet there’s no need to constantly abandon everything for something “better”, just because it’s new. DRMs can be relevant against other dragons than just in this current saga. In fact, they could even be relevant to past dragons! I for one would LOVE to revisit the jungle, Orr, and the desert to mop up dragon minions, touch base with some of those characters, and learn a little more about dragon minions after their dragon dies. And keep in mind these don’t have to have too much story - any one DRM on its own doesn’t do much, so these would be reasonably small bite sized chunks to update us on past stories, all while being easy for anet to make as they would be entirely comprised of old content from enemies to maps (I know I just criticized that. It’s not ok when DRMs are the main flow of content. But, if in the future, anet adds a few based on past dragons as side content between whatever the current story is, that’s perfectly fine).

    I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    In my opinion DRMs are a pretty good system and could be dramatically improved with just a few QOL changes around rewards and time.

    1. Fix the lfg bugs where you can only enter as a party, all that kitten where you join a squad then you have to leave so they can make a party and stuff. I haven’t been able to find a group for DRMs for a while so maybe they already fixed this?

    2. Make it so the first part auto completes after the goals are met - the timer should be a limit, not a mandatory amount of time. Alternatively, add more levels to the event and the more players accomplish the better their rewards are. For example, once you meet the initial goal of 25 destroyer kills, it bumps to 35. Put out 10 fires, it goes to 15. So on and so on, each level past the first you progress increases your rewards at the end.

    3. Speaking of rewards, the DRM-specific items need work. Firstly, there’s almost nothing to buy with the tokens. I assume this will get fixed with time, but anet needs to dramatically increase how much you can buy with them. Also, it would be nice if the volcanic weapons could be purchased for these tokens. They can come at a very high price to preserve the rarity if desired, in fact that would help with the token surplus problem. Any way to make it so things aren’t 100% RNG, no matter how far fetched the alternatives are.

    4. For future DRMs, add MORE destroyers. I know the current ones all got new attacks so they feel somewhat different, but you’d be shocked how much the model makes a difference. The new attacks count for almost nothing when you’re fighting nothing but the same guys we’ve had since 2012. New models, new enemy varieties is very important, and apparently anet is underestimating how big of a difference it makes. Especially when the enemies AND maps are old content.

    5. For the longer term future - keep the concept! Don’t drop it like seemingly every other game mode, please anet there’s no need to constantly abandon everything for something “better”, just because it’s new. DRMs can be relevant against other dragons than just in this current saga. In fact, they could even be relevant to past dragons! I for one would LOVE to revisit the jungle, Orr, and the desert to mop up dragon minions, touch base with some of those characters, and learn a little more about dragon minions after their dragon dies. And keep in mind these don’t have to have too much story - any one DRM on its own doesn’t do much, so these would be reasonably small bite sized chunks to update us on past stories, all while being easy for anet to make as they would be entirely comprised of old content from enemies to maps (I know I just criticized that. It’s not ok when DRMs are the main flow of content. But, if in the future, anet adds a few based on past dragons as side content between whatever the current story is, that’s perfectly fine).

    They already fixed nr1 and the rest I agree with

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The biggest problems I have with them right now is the lack of variety and poor rewards.

  • RizelStar.3724RizelStar.3724 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021

    I'm curious, would it really hurt if they ever tie a few mount skins as rewards in the actual game? Like just armored versions of the default skins? Would that hurt their pockets?

    I understand the whole gemstore spill, but kind of how like in WVW you can unlock that Guild mountskin, why on earth are they holding back mountskin rewards being obtainable in game. I love my current mountskins, but to be real and honest, it can come down to a person assuming I just pulled out my wallet and got the skin, not grind for the gold to get the gems. So it's a little less impressive in the grand scheme of things.

    Hell maybe even BL Keys, I mean I know less money but something sheesh. I mean like if volcanic weapon skins, came with sigils that on chance shoot a random volcanic particle doing dmg in an aoe, PVE only, just for an effect other than visuals. Is a glider engage skill gamebreaking? Heck throw that in the masteries make it usable everywhere. Ha ha I mean maybe I'm proposing a lot of game flaws, but i swear I don't see these as game breaking.

    I'm just IDK, thankfully I'm in a really active Guild, and the EOD reveal came out, yet I swear it's hard to keep playing sometimes. I just hope the creativity picks up a bit, cause I dislike knowing that the next update will bring more gemstore items, visual weapon skins, few armor skins, and masteries that effect a particular game feature...oh and titles and achievements. I'm just...man....

  • Mauti.3520Mauti.3520 Member ✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021

    rewards and more engaging gameplay

  • leila.7962leila.7962 Member ✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021

    In all honesty, after playing the game since the betas, DRM's were the first pve content that I could not find anything I that actually enjoyed. Still, I believe there are a few changes that could improve the DRM's and maybe make them less annoying to complete.

    1. Pre events: They have so much dialogues! For a repeatable content, it gets really tiring to listen to it over and over. Why not make it like in dungeons? Make these dialogues a generic cutscene that is skippable. Also, just like a lot of events on the game, they should give you a shorter countdown timer after all the tasks are finished, so it would cut off all the waiting / idle / boring time.

    2. Combat: Combat wise, it's just more of the same, no new mechanics, so no 'wow this is a cool fight' factor. The last bosses from each DRM are not challenging at all, it feels like core game 2012 kind of combat, we know Anet can do better than that. Back then it would have been cool but for a 2020 game experience, it is not enough. The trashmob fights are ok, but the last bosses surely could offer a better and more challenging fight.

    3. Encounters: They could also improve the encounters to make it seem more like an invasion. At some point the destroyers even uses the door to reach you!! What kind of invader uses the doors to invade?? Also, right now, you just wait on the next spot where they are going to pop. So basically, the encounters are really underwhelming, because they are predictable and easy. Randomness and volume would work better from a player perspective.

    4. Rewards: Needless to say that after a long mission people would want to feel that they are rewarded accordingly. I don't think that the Volcanic weapons should have a better drop rate, because they are supposed to be the best drop from the DRM's, but the common rewards really need to get better. The Tyrian Defense Seals rewards should be improved because it requires a lot of them to get low/underwhelming stuff from the vendors.

    5. Vendors: The vendors should offer things that people actually want. Right now the traders offer a bunch of recipes and we all know that a lot of the players don't care about crafting things. There are a few skins that they offer, which are ok, but once you bought them all, you have even less reasons to work for the Tyrian Defense Seals. Rewarding material boxes are also ok, but they cost too many tokens for a single box that offers a very little amount of mats, while you can get more materials on other maps doing metas and trading volatile magic for them. What could they add? Mystic coins for example, at a fair rate (15 TDS = 1 MC maybe). They could also offer ascended materials (deldrimor ingots, spirit wood planks, etc.). If they add valuable items on the vendor it would help fix the issue, so people wouldn't feel like 30 mins of game play were wasted on less than 3 g worth of rewards. IMO, it would be a good way to bring all the kids to the yard (people that are working on legendary weapons/armor, people that want to make quick gold, crafters, first timers wanting to make their first ascended items, etc.).

    Dinosaurs are awesome!

    • Rawr.
  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021

    @leila.7962 said:
    In all honesty, after playing the game since the betas, DRM's were the first pve content that I could not find anything I that actually enjoyed. Still, I believe there are a few changes that could improve the DRM's and maybe make them less annoying to complete.

    1. Pre events: They have so much dialogues! For a repeatable content, it gets really tiring to listen to it over and over. Why not make it like in dungeons? Make these dialogues a generic cutscene that is skippable. Also, just like a lot of events on the game, they should give you a shorter countdown timer after all the tasks are finished, so it would cut off all the waiting / idle / boring time.

    2. Combat: Combat wise, it's just more of the same, no new mechanics, so no 'wow this is a cool fight' factor. The last bosses from each DRM are not challenging at all, it feels like core game 2012 kind of combat, we know Anet can do better than that. Back then it would have been cool but for a 2020 game experience, it is not enough. The trashmob fights are ok, but the last bosses surely could offer a better and more challenging fight.

    3. Encounters: They could also improve the encounters to make it seem more like an invasion. At some point the destroyers even uses the door to reach you!! What kind of invader uses the doors to invade?? Also, right now, you just wait on the next spot where they are going to pop. So basically, the encounters are really underwhelming, because they are predictable and easy. Randomness and volume would work better from a player perspective.

    4. Rewards: Needless to say that after a long mission people would want to feel that they are rewarded accordingly. I don't think that the Volcanic weapons should have a better drop rate, because they are supposed to be the best drop from the DRM's, but the common rewards really need to get better. The Tyrian Defense Seals rewards should be improved because it requires a lot of them to get low/underwhelming stuff from the vendors.

    5. Vendors: The vendors should offer things that people actually want. Right now the traders offer a bunch of recipes and we all know that a lot of the players don't care about crafting things. There are a few skins that they offer, which are ok, but once you bought them all, you have even less reasons to work for the Tyrian Defense Seals. Rewarding material boxes are also ok, but they cost too many tokens for a single box that offers a very little amount of mats, while you can get more materials on other maps doing metas and trading volatile magic for them. What could they add? Mystic coins for example, at a fair rate (15 TDS = 1 MC maybe). They could also offer ascended materials (deldrimor ingots, spirit wood planks, etc.). If they add valuable items on the vendor it would help fix the issue, so people wouldn't feel like 30 mins of game play were wasted on less than 3 g worth of rewards. IMO, it would be a good way to bring all the kids to the yard (people that are working on legendary weapons/armor, people that want to make quick gold, crafters, first timers wanting to make their first ascended items, etc.).

    I think everyone hates the timer ticking even though the pre-events are finished. Either there should be more stat bonuses for repeating it over (i.e. 20/10) to make the rest of it faster or it should just move to next stage. Also in Forging Steel you can superspeed the tank but it doesn't seem you can do the same for the NPCs in DRMs.

    Volcanic Stormcaller weapons could also have a high amount of defense seals (500+) plus "volcanic cores" (volcanic lodestones + charged quartz + orichalcum ingots + bolts of gossamer) and amalgamated draconic lodestones as an alternative form of account-bound acquisition if you don't get it as a drop. They're not even ascended weapons, for the price they're ludicrous unless you love the skin since realistically you won't get one as a drop. A non-RNG alternative similar to the way Gold Fractal weapons work would be welcomed.

    Probably suggest weekly capped amalgamated draconic lodestones could be rewarded or even a mystic clover or two if defense seals (not prismatium crystal) are required (fractals have up to 2 per day) as a way to warrant actually doing up to 3 daily DRMs. The amalgamated draconic lodestone is around 13 gold and the mystic clover valuation is around 9 gold now. The people making legendaries have more use for clovers than the coins and alts won't be abused. It's clear the Crystal Bloom materials boxes were to flood mid-tier materials but the time-gate is mystic clover unless you like playing RNG in the mystic forge.

    15 Tyrian Defense seals for 1 Mystic Coin would be a rather high payoff as on average a CM version of DRM gives around 15 and each daily bonus gives 5. Realistically the entire DRM takes below 15 minutes. Mystic coins are in openworld though.

    If it's just intended as a way to provide people with gear, it's failing horribly for the majority of the playerbase which is not on legendaries across every character (and impossible even if you wanted to due to accessories). There's no ascended backpieces tradeable for Eternal Ice right now. An ascended backpiece could have been added for defense seals ; as you stated deldrimor steel ingots/spirit wood planks would have priority over ascended armor ingredients because weapons matter far more than armor.

  • Hesione.9412Hesione.9412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Would making them harder bring more players to them?

  • they have made the entire game wayyyyyy too complex and not enjoyable anymore. When you have to change what your experience counts for(mastery points lol) and which money and which keys you use on every stupid new map it is beyond stupid. I have literally taken college courses that required less learning than this game

  • and when your build works great one week and they nerf it the next it makes you say screw this

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hesione.9412 said:
    Would making them harder bring more players to them?

    That would just make less people play them because there is no point in the end reward. Theres better things to do with your time.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Genthore.2384 said:
    and when your build works great one week and they nerf it the next it makes you say screw this

    If only balance patches were weekly.

  • Mungo Zen.9364Mungo Zen.9364 Member ✭✭✭

    If the DRM continue as they currently are then I will do the minimum required to get through the story and base achievements. I would suggest the following changes:

    1 - Make Squad Sized DRM, scaling mob count and difficulty
    I fail to understand the intent of limiting DRM to 5 players. As such, I feel that making DRM work in groups larger than 5 and up to 50 would benefit the overall playability.

    2 - In Squad Sized DRM, bake CM into 'pre-events' where completing the pre unlocks the CM
    If the group can pull of the pre-events, then they can likely pull off the CM, scale rewards accordingly

    3 - Give each Squad Sized DRM a set start time once every 1 hour (expanding to every 2 hours assuming additional DRM are released)
    By having a focused start time every 20-30 minutes, players will have a target time to engage the DRM they want to play.

    4 - Retain DRM for 1-5 players as 'on demand' content, but also as the primary way of engaging with the story elements.
    In the above Squad size DRM, the story elements could be toned down, for example all the dialogue during the escort in Metrica.

    There is an argument for giving DRM farmable value similar to other content currently available. However I would be far more likely to do DRM dailies if Squad Sized DRM was an option, regardless of the net value.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2021

    @Mungo Zen.9364 said:
    If the DRM continue as they currently are then I will do the minimum required to get through the story and base achievements. I would suggest the following changes:

    1 - Make Squad Sized DRM, scaling mob count and difficulty
    I fail to understand the intent of limiting DRM to 5 players. As such, I feel that making DRM work in groups larger than 5 and up to 50 would benefit the overall playability.

    2 - In Squad Sized DRM, bake CM into 'pre-events' where completing the pre unlocks the CM
    If the group can pull of the pre-events, then they can likely pull off the CM, scale rewards accordingly

    3 - Give each Squad Sized DRM a set start time once every 1 hour (expanding to every 2 hours assuming additional DRM are released)
    By having a focused start time every 20-30 minutes, players will have a target time to engage the DRM they want to play.

    4 - Retain DRM for 1-5 players as 'on demand' content, but also as the primary way of engaging with the story elements.
    In the above Squad size DRM, the story elements could be toned down, for example all the dialogue during the escort in Metrica.

    There is an argument for giving DRM farmable value similar to other content currently available. However I would be far more likely to do DRM dailies if Squad Sized DRM was an option, regardless of the net value.

    The content is designed for 5 man and scaling downward, see the interviews regarding DRMs' rationale on massivelyop.

    Many skills don't scale past 5 players anyway and fractals are largely successful along with Living Story : those are all 5 man.

    Rhetorical question: if it ended up similar to Eternal Ice Shards where after it is no longer the "new thing" and the prismantium crystal output was multiplied by a factor of 10 for the crystals, along with weekly amalgamated draconic lodestones, would we have this thread?

    The biggest gripe people have besides the inability to skip dialogue on repeats is how 10-15 minutes later you get loot that essentially is openworld Drizzlewood Coast or Bjora Marches chest drops unless you are insanely lucky.