This game needs to rely less on players using third party websites for information.

[Aodlop.1907]

Where is that next Skyscale egg? I'll check on Google, then go back to the game, then back to Google again for next one.

What about this collection from a LW episode? Oh yeah, back to Google.

Oh, and when is that next big event or world boss? Guess I'll check on the third party event tracker.

 

Can't you just add a big circle on each map, and when we mouse over it, it displays a timer so we know when to go where?

You could also add a neat little list of the 5 current/upcoming big world events, world bosses or map metas to occur.

As someone who sometimes doesn't know what to do in the game, I know that'd be super useful for me.

 

Honestly I just want to play GW2 without having to close the game so much to get data elsewhere. It's a thing for every MMO I think, but more so with GW2.

 

Thoughts?

Edited May 2, 2022 by Aodlop.1907

[Strider Pj.2193]

Oh..  so it should just give you a roadmap path?  

[mungozen.2379]

It would be nice if there was better detail in game, but as there isn’t, you have two options. 

Use /wiki ‘subject’ in your chat bar to open the GW2 wiki directly to the page of whatever you are looking up.  You can use item links as well with /wiki, or zone names, NPC names, whatever. 
 

The other is to get a third party app called TACO. I don’t use this personally, but it can overlay pathing for many different activities for optimal game play. 
 

Unfortunately, GW2 for the most part is what you see is what you get, so I doubt we will see any significant updates in game, ever. 

[Obtena.7952]

Didn't we have this topic before?

There isn't anything unreasonable about people providing information on how to play a game or do something in it OUTSIDE of the game ... that has been happening since Video Games were invented. It used to be manuals provided with the games themselves and 3rd parties assembling game How To's as books. Now that's transitioned to online. 

What I would be in favour of is better connections between the game and the out-of-game information. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[AgentMoore.9453]

I think some degree of external referencing is fine and normal for games. Back in the day, if you got stumped you'd pick up the guidebook that came with the game or go out and buy a Prima guide (or similar) to see what strategies others recommended - now you use the wiki for the same purpose.

ArenaNet took a step in the right direction by adding the /wiki command directly into their game, and I find it to be an invaluable tool when I've done all the exploring I can but still can't manage to reach my goal. For most things, I think this system works well and I can generally figure things out on my own with the wiki there to fill in the gaps. Another example of them keeping this in mind is the world boss portal device which not only gives you easy access to events, but gives you their schedule as well.

That said, some achievements, collection steps, events, and other tasks are worded pretty vaguely (or incorrectly) or require you to complete steps in a certain order or special way to the point where it becomes a chore trying to go after them. In those cases, the impulse is to go almost immediately for the guide book or wiki or third-party tool which feels like a sign that something has not been implemented in an intuitive way. With regard to things like that, I can agree with the OP that we shouldn't have to seek out-of-game resources for things that should be explained properly by the game itself. Trouble is, it can be hard to get players to agree about which things those are, and how much guidance is enough.

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Players don't need to check 3rd party sites for anything, all the information is available already for those prepared to look. Skyscale eggs is a great example: You are supposed to follow the clues, not cheese it by googling. If you do decide to go that route, then having to flip between google and the game is only something you do until you realise the game window can be resized.

[ASP.8093]

I'll raise you this one:

 

What gear should I have? [firing up gw2skills.net because otherwise I will *never* get the crit chance or condition duration numbers perfect]

[Danikat.8537]

I think in some cases this is a difference between how Anet intended the game to be played and how players want to approach it. For example I think they didn't provide timers for world bosses because they wanted it to seem unpredictable and be a bit of a surprise when it happened. But players discovered they give good drops so they want to farm them and so worked out a schedule to do so.

There's also a lot of items, collections and achievements which they intended to be a sort of 'scavenger hunt' where players would have to work together to figure out what to do. I know gen 1 legendary weapons were designed that way because some of the developers said before the game was released that part of the challenge would be finding out what was needed to make them. But again some players don't want to figure it out, or don't see the point when they know someone else will have already worked out what to do, so they use a guide instead.
 

14 minutes ago, nosleepdemon.1368 said:

Players don't need to check 3rd party sites for anything, all the information is available already for those prepared to look. Skyscale eggs is a great example: You are supposed to follow the clues, not cheese it by googling. If you do decide to go that route, then having to flip between google and the game is only something you do until you realise the game window can be resized.

The skyscale scales collection has hints which it's possible to follow to the locations. The sick skyscales and eggs collections literally just list the section of the map, with no other information. I was able to do the scale collection using the in-game hints and found the sick skyscales because they're relatively big, but the eggs are quite small objects, often tucked in crevices and there's a big area to search for each one. I know it is possible to find them without a guide because someone had to in order to create the guide, but I found it excessively frustrating. (I compromised though, I just used the text descriptions on the Wiki, which at the time were pretty similar to the hints for the eggs, it wasn't exact directions but it did narrow it down.)
 

24 minutes ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

I think some degree of external referencing is fine and normal for games. Back in the day, if you got stumped you'd pick up the guidebook that came with the game or go out and buy a Prima guide (or similar) to see what strategies others recommended - now you use the wiki for the same purpose.

I remember Prima guides. I gave up on them when I opened one which said Pokemon was pronounced "Poh-kay-man", the Red version was for girls and Blue for boys and Pikachu was the first pokemon ever designed. The others weren't much better from what I remember, sometimes matching up what the guide claimed was in the game with what was actually there was nearly as challenging as figuring it out yourself. (And this was before games could get updates that invalidated what the guide said because whole systems had changed.)

[Astralporing.1957]

18 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I think in some cases this is a difference between how Anet intended the game to be played and how players want to approach it. For example I think they didn't provide timers for world bosses because they wanted it to seem unpredictable and be a bit of a surprise when it happened. But players discovered they give good drops so they want to farm them and so worked out a schedule to do so.

That was how it was originally, when a boss event fired up in a certain time after the previous concluded, with each map instance having a separate timer. Orr Temple events still work like that, but since then most world bosses have been changed to work on a known, constant schedule, same for all maps.

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

Where is that next Skyscale egg? I'll check on Google, then go back to the game, then back to Google again for next one.

One about this collection from a LW episode? Oh yeah, back to Google.

Oh, and when is that next big event or world boss? Guess I'll check on the third party event tracker.

 

Can't you just add a big circle on each map, and when we mouse over it, it displays a timer so we know when to go where?

You could also add a neat little list of the 5 current/upcoming big world events, world bosses or map metas to occur.

As someone who sometimes doesn't know what to do in the game, I know that'd be super useful for me.

 

Honestly I just want to play GW2 without having to close the game so much to get data elsewhere. It's a thing for every MMO I think, but more so with GW2.

 

Thoughts?

 

Fixed your title:  Players need to rely less on using third party websites for information.

[Solvar.7953]

It does seem inconsistent - some achievements/collections will put markers on the map for where to go, while others do not.  It really just seems to be when that collection was added and what the developer at the time felt like doing.

The scavenger hunts were clearly meant to be just that - try to figure out where everything is.  But I wonder how many players actually figure out the entire thing on their own, and at what point they fire up the wiki or taco to get the last 10% of the collection which is can be very well hidden.

 

[Tukaram.8256]

Using the wiki or YT vids are optional. We do not need to get outside info, it just makes it simpler.  Not much different than why walkthrough sites are popular.

[Dante.1508]

Yes and we should not be using third part apps and mods to get things done which the game fails to give you.

I would have never finished the skyscale quests without the guide, the things were too well hidden and totally random sellers across the world.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Mrs Lana.2506]

I think certain things are past due with being added.

For instance, I can't check any transformation skills in the hero panel. If I'm on a necro and want to read the shroud skills I have to transform and read the descriptions from the bar. There's nowhere in the hero panel that lists the descriptions for them. Same with reaper, holosmith, druid and specter. There may be more but those are the ones I can remember atm.

Others, like straight up guides to things like skyscale eggs, shouldn't be in the game. That's just a "follow-the-adventure-line" game, which isn't fun or engaging.

[lezbefriends.7516]

It's always been a flaw of the game that, you have to minimize it to find information.

[Zohane.7208]

10 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

Where is that next Skyscale egg? I'll check on Google, then go back to the game, then back to Google again for next one.

One about this collection from a LW episode? Oh yeah, back to Google.

Oh, and when is that next big event or world boss? Guess I'll check on the third party event tracker.

 

Can't you just add a big circle on each map, and when we mouse over it, it displays a timer so we know when to go where?

You could also add a neat little list of the 5 current/upcoming big world events, world bosses or map metas to occur.

As someone who sometimes doesn't know what to do in the game, I know that'd be super useful for me.

 

Honestly I just want to play GW2 without having to close the game so much to get data elsewhere. It's a thing for every MMO I think, but more so with GW2.

 

Thoughts?

Well, considering all information out on the web, be it wiki, youtube, guildjen, dulfy, taco, or other sources is made by players who have found each and every thing on their own, without any external tools, it's pretty obvious that all these external sources are in fact not needed. They do serve as a convenience for those of us who can't be bothered to go out there and do all the legwork for ourselves. From that perspective it's not unreasonable for them to not be in the game.

Personally I think it's great that Anet doesn't spoon feed us all the information, but leave a bit for people to find out for themselves.

 

49 minutes ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

It's always been a flaw of the game that, you have to minimize it to find information.

I don't see it as a flaw but rather a design principle, which we may like or dislike. And again, you don't actually have to use them; they are a convenience.

[Cuks.8241]

I dont like when games just put the marker on the map and all youre doing is moving between markers. I like the exploration part. Ive been able to do legendary collections without external info. Its mostly doable with clues. 

On the other hand some collections are over the top where you need to find 10s of items hidden in the most obscure places (hello Ember Bay) and you need the wiki. I think these are redundant anyway or the game should provide a scanner widget or smth like that. 

What I miss in gw2 is a journal for collections.  Some of them have really nice stories behind them but there is really nothing in game to recall them. The journal could recap previous steps, conversations and story but also provide additional hints for missing steps. 

[yoni.7015]

1 hour ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

It's always been a flaw of the game that, you have to minimize it to find information.

With a second screen you don’t have to minimize the game. 
I don’t mind using the wiki for additional information. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Astralporing.1957]

The one thing that definitely needs to happen is for all achievements that need you to do some distinct steps/collect things in different locations etc, there should be an individual checklist showing which positions you have already done and which you hadn't. Many achievements are done like that, but many others still have only a total counter and no info beyond that.

Good luck finding which step you have specifically missed if all the info you have is 24/25 (for example). There's been many cases where i had to revisit all possible places from the very beginning to find that one step i've missed. Since then some achievements have been fixed, but most were not.

[DeanBB.4268]

18 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

Oh, and when is that next big event or world boss? Guess I'll check on the third party event tracker.

Can't you just add a big circle on each map, and when we mouse over it, it displays a timer so we know when to go where?

You could also add a neat little list of the 5 current/upcoming big world events, world bosses or map metas to occur.

As someone who sometimes doesn't know what to do in the game, I know that'd be super useful for me.

Get the World Boss Portal Device and Maguuma Pact Operation Portal Device and you'll not only receive notifications, but be able to teleport there for free.

[Einlanzer.1627]

Some of this is fine, but Anet does rely too heavily on it across too many areas of the game. The below things IMO really make for bad player experiences and would probably be among my top priorites to address if I was in charge of the game:

- NPCs and organizations are too difficult to keep track of outside of the core dragon's watch group. We don't need full wiki bios in-game, but a better way of summarizing them for easy consumption in-game is needed. Perhaps the best approach would be a straightforward expansion of the story journal to show bio snippets w/ current status within each story step after that step is completed (people/orgs involved, whether they were first introduced, killed, or highly significant things in between).

- the minimap is really, really bad for understanding paths in maps with high verticality, making them universally more annoying and tedious to navigate than they should be. It's in serious need of an update to represent verticality in a more fluid way as it actually exists in those maps.

- the vague hints offered in most collection achievements are flat-out useless; there absolutely should be some kind of tracking or marking system indicating when you are close to something you are following for a collection achievement. They all but require waaaaaay too much alt-tabbing to youtube to make progress on at a rate that even approaches being reasonable. 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Einlanzer.1627

[DeanBB.4268]

I dunno, I like the scavenger hunts as they are. Items can be hard to find for those who want the challenge of finding them, and people provide guides for those who do not. I'm a mix of the two, and even with the guides some things are a challenge to find.

I really don't see a problem here.

[DD39C89C-1C46-4F28-BDB7-49]

Yes, there should more info in-game.

For example items for collections should be clearly marked as such everywhere. Currently there is not such indication for items offered by merchants.

So you need to check every item with the Wiki, or spend time to comeback to same places again to buy missed items, which is boring and time consuming. As a lot of collections have items at the same places, so following one collection is no good, and remembering all is impossible.

[Einlanzer.1627]

2 minutes ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

I dunno, I like the scavenger hunts as they are. Items can be hard to find for those who want the challenge of finding them, and people provide guides for those who do not. I'm a mix of the two, and even with the guides some things are a challenge to find.

I really don't see a problem here.

 

You might not see a problem, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. When the majority of players who even bother to do a collection end up following a youtube guide for the entirety of it so they don't get frustrated and lose hours upon hours of playtime with something that simply isn't efficient, there's an issue. A slightly more sophisticated "homing" system for achievements you are tracking is sorely needed.

[ASP.8093]

You have to strike a balance here, because a game where *all* ancillary information is directly in the game UI is basically a game that's afraid to have you actually explore anything.

At the end of the day, I suspect the problem with the Skyscale eggs is that it's a boring activity so everyone just short-circuits it to get to the reward.