Living World.....Gone?

[mungozen.2379]

Studio Roadmap and Update

So we won't be getting another Living World, and we will be getting smaller Expansions?  And those smaller expansions will come with half the content day one and the other half 3-6 months down the line?  So what we are getting is a promise of less content that must be paid for and is delivered over the course of months or a year.

But you are promising new content?

I am somewhat torn about this announcement.  After EoD was released and it fell short of expectations set by HoT and PoF and then the past year of questionable profession updates, no new EoD related content, even considering how poorly IBS was completed, I have little desire to pre-pay for content for GW2.  This company should not be financially rewarded for putting forth a substandard effort. 

Now, I won't be able to wait for the expansion to drop and decide if it is worth the investment, rather, I have to wait months to decide if the content is worth it.  And if the new content doesn't come with say, new eSpecs or other profession upgrades/changes, what would I be missing by not rushing into the new content?

Maybe this is a good change for the health of the game overall but, until Anet start putting out quality content releases that feel like good value, I will be skeptical that this is any better for the player base.

[Jirian.7512]

why "no living world"? sounds more like "now your living world will be called expansions and will cost moneyz" to me

[Randulf.7614]

Whilst I am underwhelmed by this rather poor roadmap, we do need to balance out the idea of less content for pve/story with more content across other modes which the game has neglected. 

I don’t like the idea of smaller expansions and with the continued drop in quality, it doesn’t bode well, but it’s wait and see. It’s a shame they say they are focussing on player needs, yet ignoring some of the EoD feedback - a direct contrast to HoT where feedback was acknowledged and addressed.

I’d much rather see a long overdue proper sized expansion which has strong repeatable content at this point than drip feeding bits like lotro now does.

But yes, I agree it is quality that will be the judging marker. I can forgive a lot if they return to form on quality. That needs to be proven before the next chargeable release.

[Cyninja.2954]

The current proposed model they are going for is something in the in the middle of what players were asking for.

1. The common complaints about "missing" Living World content and thus having to "pay" for it often accompanied by:"I bought the last expansion, the LW content should come for free with it". There you have it, LW followup content is now tied to the previous expansion

2. focus on larger content drops instead of smaller ones. Not sure this will pan out, it seems to work for other similar sized games. Not having actual BIG expansions could come to bite the game in the future, time will tell

3. The common statement:"I would pay for content XYZ". Well now you can.

4. The common:"We want to pay for content, not gem store stuff". Well now you can.

5. Minor expansions now deliver more possibilities for players to "return" if they are large enough to create buzz (without the additional cost of buying LW episodes retroactively). The additional content types (spvp, fractals, strikes, wvw, balance updates, etc.) serviced will round out the players targeted.

Overall this approach can go well if the content provided is of enough quality and frequency. It definitely will be more expensive for the "I have only bought expansions" crowd.

The current designed roadmap and shift of focus does seem to indicate that the developers agree with the notion that focusing ONLY on story and pve Living World is not sufficient to keep the game healthy. Something players from niche content have been advocating for years.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Cyninja.2954

[akipappi.3917]

I think this was a good financial choice from Anet. Look at Icebrood Saga. It was bad. And EoD was also bad. If they continued the way they did surely they would have had to shut down the game, releasing content for free that took a lot of effort but the quality kept plummeting. Also this way we will expect less from the smaller expansions as opposed to big major releases that have to do well, now if something is boring we can just wait a bit and get something else later. However this just seems like a sub based game now which I think is fair if the quality is worth it. EoD is around 26 euros and the release window would seem to fall into 13e/month if its every 2 months.

 

The thing I am most concerned about is Elite Specs mostly. "new gameplay and combat features, new Masteries, and new rewards." They were so vague. Are we getting elite specs very fast now or every 4 years? Balance could spiral out of control even more. And EoD specs are horrible so will the future espec quality be better or worse? Also new masteries? I am not excited at all considering what we got in EoD, more buff machines? Or like in IBS, where masteries were using door handles. I want to see how this turns out but I do love gw franchise so I hope it goes well.

[Ultramex.1506]

Heh, remember when they said they'll be releasing expansion like living world? Maybe now it will come true

[Farohna.6247]

Oh good more of Rama and his hat!   

I hope (not judging on the last bit of IBS, the start was great, or the subjectiveness of EoD) that it means more focus on quality and consistency with resources not being spread out so much.  If it's smaller chunks with a smaller team instead of a big chunk with a small team, I could see that.  

While it may not be exactly what I expect or want, I'm willing to give it a try.  People have asked more content, more often, and this would fulfill that.  

[PzTnT.7198]

This does sound to me as expansions are just going to get released over time rather than all at once. Which is fine in my book at least.

So as i see it we will get two maps at the start and then they continue to add on it for a year or so. Meaning the story will probably get held at various akin to what happens in FFXIV between expansions. So if someone wants to get the whole thing all at once they will have to wait for it all to be finished. What matters at the end is how much ends up being added in between expansions. If it includes multiple maps and such which end up making each finished expansion as big (or bigger) as they are now, then its pretty good.

Edited February 13, 2023 by PzTnT.7198

[mandala.8507]

The issue is this restructuring isn't new conceptually for this studio. It is almost identical to what IBS ended up being. So, if people didn't like IBS, now they're paying for the IBS formula instead of getting it for free.

[Cyninja.2954]

8 minutes ago, mandala.8507 said:

The issue is this restructuring isn't new conceptually for this studio. It is almost identical to what IBS ended up being. So, if people didn't like IBS, now they're paying for the IBS formula instead of getting it for free.

 

Which part of IBS though? The first 3 episodes or the last 3 because I think there were severely different conceptual and developmental differences between both.

[Myror.7521]

As long as we finaly get a support e-spec for warr that uses staff im fine ....... LoL

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Pati.2438 said:

As long as we finaly get a support e-spec for warr that uses staff im fine ....... LoL

Why do i think that "lesser expansions" are something that might let Anet get away with not delivering stuff we have been used to get in expansions so far... with the primary candidate being new especs?

[Myror.7521]

@Astralporing.1957 ye this is my fear. Not be able to play my fav class everytime sucks cause it is melee dps only lmao. xD

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

Tbh i dont mind paying, since i was so impressed with lws3 and 4, more than HoT, and a lot of beautiful maps with features, so half the price is fine (which i think is same cost if you missed unlocking the chaps).

 

On the other hand, I'm worried, gw2 has been going down lately (in terms of story content and new features) I'm afriad it might turn into another IBS.

[Bast.7253]

Sounds like IBS original goal but with a payment model. I wouldn’t expect new especs but it might be good to clarify this before players speculate too much.

 

Not opposed to this model but it makes me wonder why content keeps getting scaled down year after year. Especially now despite the monolithic success EoD supposedly was for the franchise.

[Urud.4925]

So we'll have to pay 20€ every six months now. They've just gotten the best business model award, so they can change the cost now. Seems fair. Let's see. For now it's just a statement, so I won't judge (too much).

Edited February 13, 2023 by Urud.4925

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

So, what I pulled from that was "balance changes" are going to keep coming out as per usual and the next content updates in the game (instead of being LWS and something active players can get by just logging in and taking part in the game) will be paid (at a "slightly lower" price).  I promise you now, Anet, if you try to sell a trickle of content that would have been a LWS arch for a few dollars less than you've just sold an entire expansion, you will have a dead game on your hands, because it *will* lead to some rage quitting.  In a world where people can go on a service like steam right now, and buy an indie game for 10-15 dollars and have hundreds of hours of enjoyment, I'd be very careful about trying to fleece your current player base for trivial additions to the game.  Suffice to say, I'm definitely not paying for anything until I see how its all implemented.  Ball is definitely in your court.

[Ariurotl.3718]

I most likely won't even be able to buy any of those new more frequent expansions and I log in most days so LW availability has not been a problem for me. So this change has literally no upside as far as I'm concerned. Oh well.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Ariurotl.3718

[Donutdude.9582]

Overall, I am hopeful that ArenaNet will handle this well.  I am all for supporting the company w' my money, however I am still incredibly kitten about the ending of Champions and how Primordus was handled.

I'm excited but dubious at the same time.  Please do not mess it up guys.

[Pifil.5193]

1 hour ago, Jirian.7512 said:

why "no living world"? sounds more like "now your living world will be called expansions and will cost moneyz" to me

 

That's pretty much what I thought too.

 

They're taking about an expansion launching with two maps and then the rest comes down the line instead of LS.

 

This sounds like less content overall but more frequently at a slightly reduced price so maybe €25 instead of €30. Doesn't sound exciting to me but they get to charge players more frequently... time will tell if their players agree that this is good value, I'm doubtful.

[Nomad.4301]

As a primarily WvW/competitive player I'm pretty whelmed by this news as it essentially sounds like it boils down to "pay money more frequently for the same stuff that used to be free" but while this primarily sounds like story content that I could care less about it also makes zero mention of new PvP/WvW features and/or Elite Specs. Basically the only thing I got out of my EoD purchase was the E-specs and because of the lack of additional content have barely logged in for the past 12 months. 

If this ends up just having us pay more frequently for the same PvE content released in-between expansions (formerly known as Living World) then I'm not sure I see the benefit to us because as far as I'm aware the current LW content still requires the associated expansion to play anyways, making this paradigm shift even more odd.

I'm guessing that it'll be something like:

Currently - Pay $40 to get 2 years of expansion content dished out every 3-4 months (4-6 episodes) and another expansion after ~24, plus 3-4 expansion "features" and 9 new elite specs

Post EoD - Pay $30-35 get 1 year (possibly less?) of expansion content in 2-3 patches (story only) and possibly 1-2 expansion "features" + ???

I'm not cheap (having bought the $100+ version of every expansion thus far) and Gw2 is one of the best deals in gaming but it's hard to view this as anything but trying to get more money for the same release cadence ala SwToR and it's "DLC expansions". If somehow these mini-expansions mean more content ends up in the game instead of in the cash shop then it'll be worth it I suppose but somehow I doubt that is their plan.

Overall I guess I'll wait and see how this play out, if it's what I fear it is then I'm overdue for a long break and can always come back in a few years and pick up the expansions in a bundle or on sale and play through it then, since we apparently no longer miss out by not logging in which is nice, though this is likely because you're now paying for LW up front.

*Bear in mind that unless ArenaNet has been hiring like mad behind the scenes or has massively improved their workflow, this is still the same studio with the same amount of people and they are in all likelihood going to put out the same amount of content over the same period of time but now it is going to cost more and thus have higher expectations because it's no longer just a patch or an update but an expansion, not sure about others but this just gives me "Icebrood Saga" vibes all over again.*

Edited February 13, 2023 by Nomad.4301
*additional thought

[Doggie.3184]

Living World was consumed by the Void. Gotta save it by completing FFXIV's story.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Fine with me. I like content. I like expansions. I like Living World.

 

After Path of Fire, ArenaNet choose to go Living World only and forever. And came with the Icebrood Saga. The problem with this approach is that Living World gets little attention outside of out Guild Wars 2 community. When Guild Wars 2 wants to grow, they need to get attention outside of the existing community. Expansions achieve this. End of Dragons achieved this. A lot of MMO channels, websites and media gave the game a lot of attention around the release of EoD and EoD got excellent reviews. It's not that Living World could not have achieved the content that EoD brought, the problem is that the content would never have gotten the attention if it was released as small, periodic living world releases.

 

No living world but more frequent expansions can be a tool to continue to get the media attention that the game needs to keep attracting new players. Question remains if the smaller expansions will still be large enough to get good reviews and if more frequent expansion releases will release frequent enough to satisfy the existing community with the loss of intermediate Living World releases. But in the core, I think I'm more happy with regular expansions than the existing systems.

 

The issue with larger expansions is that it can feel overwhelming with new content "too much to do" and that times after expansions or living world seasons often came with content droughts "nothing to do". Also, Living World itself mostly had the purpose "not to lose existing players" rather than bring in new revenue for ArenaNet/NCSoft. A well-maintained expansion schedule may be able to fix both. Providing that expansion releases will be frequent and that there are no content droughts anymore. Frequent expansions can be a good motivation for ArenaNet to keep making content as every expansion will bring revenue. Everything will stand or fall with their ability to provide regular releases. And for that we will have to wait and see.

[Crono.4197]

Well...I'm disappointed but at the same time I kind of saw this coming.

At this point, they should have continued with the Living World and maybe bundle them to have a cheaper gem store price.

Like a lot of people, I'm pretty skeptical too.

So we've had Paid Expansion-LS-Paid Expansion-LS-Paid Expansion and now we'll have Paid Expansion - Paid Expansion - Paid Expansion and so on...the "first part" of the game will be in one format while the second one (from here onwards) will have another format.

This will make things even more confusing for people as to how they should proceed with the game and why some parts of the game cost while others do not or why some parts of the game cost gems and after that they cost real money every year.

As for the quality of the game itself...IBS and to an extend EoD have kind of made worry about the direction of the game. And now we're being told we're getting even less content and we're getting it for money, while with Living World you would get it for free if you were an active player.

Sounds like Icebrood Saga but paywall even if you're an active player.

[Jukhy.2431]

What I got from this is that in the future they'll be:
• Releasing smaller expansions with reduced price at faster pace. Perhaps 1–1,5 years apart, since the old expansion cycle was 2–3 years apart.
• Releasing quaterly updates with new maps, story and other content for the expansions. Everyone who owns the related expansion will unlock these for free and without having to log in.

Sounds good to me. The cost will likely not change much - faster pace but with smaller price tag. So they actually did listen to the "content drought" crowd with this one.

 

Edit: also bit weird how many people seems to have selective reading here. To me it looks like some users missed whole paragraphs of the news post.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Jukhy.2431