To Those Calling for Open World PVP

[Cardolan.9123]

What if there's a new WVW map that's designed similar to a PVE map? Instead of the towers camps keeps etc, it can have PVE features such as events, meta events, NPCs, renown hearts, and even map currencies. WVW server scores in this map can be calculated based on event completion and enemy players killed. This new WVW map kind of makes itself a PVE map with open world PVP enabled. Plus, the reward of farming this map should be no more than that of farming an ordinary PVE map, and there won't be any personal story in this map, so it will have zero influence to the PVE playerbase.Thoughts? (Still it's not likely gonna happen though)

Edit: highlighted clarification that what I suggest is purely a new WVW map, it has nothing to do with the PVE open world nor its rules.

[Danikat.8537]

That's the only way it's likely to happen. I can't find the quotes now but Anet have said they actually experimented with making optional PvP areas in PvE maps but it's not an easy thing to do because of the way allies and enemies are set up in PvE - either all players can attack you or no one can, so there isn't any way to have a system where only people who have chosen to engage with it can be attacked, only by other people who have chosen to be involved.

So it would have to be a dedicated map built using the same system they use for WvW maps, with some way of assigning players to teams...and at that point it may as well be a WvW map.

[Amaranthe.3578]

Sure. I'd really prefer actual world pvp. Just let ppl toggle it on or off

[Bloodstealer.5978]

@Danikat.8537 said:That's the only way it's likely to happen. I can't find the quotes now but Anet have said they actually experimented with making optional PvP areas in PvE maps but it's not an easy thing to do because of the way allies and enemies are set up in PvE - either all players can attack you or no one can, so there isn't any way to have a system where only people who have chosen to engage with it can be attacked, only by other people who have chosen to be involved.

So it would have to be a dedicated map built using the same system they use for WvW maps, with some way of assigning players to teams...and at that point it may as well be a WvW map.

I'm not sure that is specifically true. There would be no need for a special new map ... a designated zone on any existing map that has an entrance into it that tags all who venture in is all that's needed. Any players choosing to enter that zone are by definition acknowledging the fact they become potential targets. Most MMO' I have played with OWPvP use this same feature... with added pop up message as a warning to the player of course prior to being tagged for OWPvP.... it's not a new concept, trash mobs still attack anyone just like before.On a side note I am not a fan of OWPvP but see no reason it can't be implemented onto a map or maps except it would require dev time and cost

[GaijinGuy.8476]

As much as I like open world PvP games, Gw2 isn’t designed for it.We have WvW which is the closest we can get in Gw2.For the people who want open world PvP in regular PvE maps, this is the wrong game.Even if you have it as a toggle on or off function, the people with it set to on would be very few and far between.

[tim.4596]

@Cardolan.9123 said:What if there's a new WVW map that's designed similar to a PVE map? Instead of the towers camps keeps etc, it can have PVE features such as events, meta events, NPCs, renown hearts, and even map currencies. WVW server scores in this map can be calculated based on event completion and enemy players killed. This kind of makes it a PVE map with open world PVP enabled. Plus, the reward of farming this map should be no more than that of farming an ordinary PVE map, and there won't be any personal story in this map, so it will have zero influence to the PVE playerbase.Thoughts? (Still it's not likely gonna happen though)

That's not even required, they could keep maps as they currently are, and just activate an in-game toggle ON/OFF which allows you to activate PvP mode. That way, if you want to do PvP. You do so. And if you don't want to. Then you don't. And this way, everyone is happy. However, that's probably never gonna happen. So I'd say your idea of a new WvW map is way better :)

[JustTrogdor.7892]

Here is one quote from Anet about PvP areas in PvE maps:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/695146/#Comment_695146

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:I'm not against 1v1 dueling, with restrictions to areas. But as other's noted, to do this right requires a lot of work. (Specified duel areas, a way to change the skill ruleset used based on an area rather than a whole map, etc.

We have so many higher priorities that I can't see us ever actually getting to this in the foreseeable future. Especially as we already have the means for players to create their own 1v1's via custom arenas.

So it seems separate new WvW type maps like the OP suggested might be more likely than designated areas in the current PvE maps or a PvP toggle in PvE maps.

[Taygus.4571]

I want a WvW map where you get to play inquest etc.

With different chain events based on whether the "bad" group vs the good win an area/task ^^.

Like the openworld events, if they fail/succeed.

I find the tower capture of WvW, quite dull.

[b k.1648]

I'm not calling for open world PvP because I think it's a perfectly idiotic idea - but I think this premise has some merit.

Skip the hearts and filler, though. Just go for the meta-events where your adversaries include actual players. And sure, dress up as Inquest, why not?

Probably the best result here would be something like Dragon's Stand, but where the three lanes are not friends and only one can win the meta-event.

[joneirikb.7506]

@Cardolan.9123

I think that is an interesting idea. Couple of thoughts:

• Use the EotM system for grouping/teams.
• Make it a mainly farming map (type Silverwastes?)
• Best gold/hour return, for highest risk.
• Still can't stand hearts, but a couple of repeatable would work.
• Uncertain about scoring, and how to use it, might be better to do just like EotM and give supply bonuses?

I'll admit I'm not the best at suggesting maps, since I'm so out of PVE grinding it isn't even funny. But repeatable hearts could be used as a way to create acitivty around in either specific spots around the middle, or as ways to get people to do something outside of their own spawn. Few or no Vista's. And probably a couple of scattered towers around to create some sort of "rest zones" of focus objectives.

I like the idea of having multiple Event chains all over the map, separate for each team, that can end up clashing in specific places etc.

I'm also chuckling at the thought that I could finally use Arrow Carts for what I've always wanted to use them for, slaughter pve mobs ;)

---

Regarding OpenWorld PvP:

ANet stated before that the PvP settings of the game are linked to the map and the map location. Essentially if a map is located in PVE they don't have a way of enabling PvP, and if they did (by moving the map to another zone) they'd enable pvp for everyone or no-one, free for all or server teams etc, depending on where they moved it.

This means:

• They can't "just" enable pvp in OW.
• They can't give players a "toggle" for on/off (unless that toggle just forced you into a different map in another mode).
• Can't use "part" of a map.

Unless they dedicate a whole lot of time/effort/resources into rewriting their entire "game mode" system. Which is likely more work than they're going to do before GW3.

Which is the best part about the OP's suggestion, because it rather bypasses all of those limitations, and moves the PVE experience to a separate map in WvW, where all of this is already established and organized. Including with pre-set teams to zerg the events with.

It also keeps the map out of World Completion for those that cares about that ;)

[Funky.4861]

A question for the OP: why do you want to bring pvp into pve? I dislike pvp (the usual reasons) and am quite happy with the current choices available to me. I do not see the point of merging gamemodes.

[Aaralyna.3104]

@Cardolan.9123 said:it can have PVE features such as events, meta events, NPCs, renown hearts, and even map currencies. WVW server scores in this map can be calculated based on event completion and enemy players killed. This kind of makes it a PVE map with open world PVP enabled. Plus, the reward of farming this map should be no more than that of farming an ordinary PVE map, and there won't be any personal story in this map, so it will have zero influence to the PVE playerbase.

I am not a pvp player but I have a feeling that if you add PVE towards PVP maps (like wvw) the pve folks will flock there (due to the sake of completion or still better rewards) and then complain they get killed and demand kill free zones, or flame at Anet for mixing modes or the likes. These players don't want any fight interference of other players and it won't matter to them what the original map is indicated as.

I still have to do the jump puzzles in some maps of wvw which I avoid simply due to being able to get killed. I will do them once for the sake of completion and yes I will rage if someone would kill me then.

Just keep modes fully seperated.

P.s. in the old days wvw maps completion was part of world completion and they took that out for a reason.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

You can already PvP in the PVE world. You and your enemy just hop in a tonic and start smacking each other around :)

[Ashantara.8731]

Open world PvP? No, thank you.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" wrote in September 2018:I'm not against 1v1 dueling, with restrictions to areas. But as other's noted, to do this right requires a lot of work. (Specified duel areas, a way to change the skill ruleset used based on an area rather than a whole map, etc.)

We have so many higher priorities that I can't see us ever actually getting to this in the foreseeable future. Especially as we already have the means for players to create their own 1v1's via custom arenas.

[Excursion.9752]

Going to go way back here... Ultima Online had a Guild Warring system that enabled guilds to fight each other any place any time.

The only caveat was that both guilds had to claim war on each other it was not one sided. There was also an option for guilds that were at war to claim if they were for Order or for Chaos. If your guild selected to side with one or the other then you could fight any guild who was on the other side.

That system was implemented back in the late 90's and I have always felt it could work on this game as well. This way you could have the best of both worlds living in harmony. The people who only want PVE in the open world would get it and the people who wanted to fight in the open world could do that to.

[b k.1648]

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Regarding OpenWorld PvP:

ANet stated before that the PvP settings of the game are linked to the map and the map location. Essentially if a map is located in PVE they don't have a way of enabling PvP, and if they did (by moving the map to another zone) they'd enable pvp for everyone or no-one, free for all or server teams etc, depending on where they moved it.

This means:

• They can't "just" enable pvp in OW.
• They can't give players a "toggle" for on/off (unless that toggle just forced you into a different map in another mode).
• Can't use "part" of a map.

Unless they dedicate a whole lot of time/effort/resources into rewriting their entire "game mode" system. Which is likely more work than they're going to do before GW3.

Which is the best part about the OP's suggestion, because it rather bypasses all of those limitations, and moves the PVE experience to a separate map in WvW, where all of this is already established and organized. Including with pre-set teams to zerg the events with.

It also keeps the map out of World Completion for those that cares about that ;)

I'd just like to point out that they did, accidentally, provide a way to open-world PvP when Silverwastes was released. Before the bug was fixed, when you turned the bandits friendly, you'd turn hostile to other players.

What they meant by not being able to enable PvP is the PvP build system. Turning PvP on in PvE areas with the PvE build system actually is so simple they've done it by mistake.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Regarding OpenWorld PvP:

ANet stated before that the PvP settings of the game are linked to the map and the map location. Essentially if a map is located in PVE they don't have a way of enabling PvP, and if they did (by moving the map to another zone) they'd enable pvp for everyone or no-one, free for all or server teams etc, depending on where they moved it.

This means:

• They can't "just" enable pvp in OW.
• They can't give players a "toggle" for on/off (unless that toggle just forced you into a different map in another mode).
• Can't use "part" of a map.

Unless they dedicate a whole lot of time/effort/resources into rewriting their entire "game mode" system. Which is likely more work than they're going to do before GW3.

Which is the best part about the OP's suggestion, because it rather bypasses all of those limitations, and moves the PVE experience to a separate map in WvW, where all of this is already established and organized. Including with pre-set teams to zerg the events with.

It also keeps the map out of World Completion for those that cares about that ;)

I'd just like to point out that they did, accidentally, provide a way to open-world PvP when Silverwastes was released. Before the bug was fixed, when you turned the bandits friendly, you'd turn hostile to other players.

What they meant by not being able to enable PvP is the PvP build system. Turning PvP on in PvE areas with the PvE build system actually is so simple they've done it by mistake.

That was (a) not the first time and (b) not the system anyone is asking for. Flagging every friendly as a hostile is easy. What they can't easily do is flag some players as hostile and other players as friendly. So the zone would be 100% PvP or, as it is now, 0%. There's no "opt in" easily available. That's trivially different from what we have now (some maps are PvP, some are WvW, and most are PvE).

[Kovu.7560]

A big reason many people want open world pvp is because the comparatively limited and unchanged mechanics of wvw don't scratch that itch anymore. They keep releasing new pve content with interesting and fresh mechanics, but wvw almost never gets the same treatment. Admittedly I'm finding this core week event quite enjoyable, but these occasional events and odd occasional content updates (new skins, warclaw etc.) don't really grow the root concept of the game enough for many people to remain interested after 7~ years. They're band-aid solutions.

The only way people are going to get their open world pvp is if the developer chooses to invest a legitimate amount of time and resources into improving and evolving (and possibly outright changing) the core mechanics. The purists will hate them for it, too, but I suspect they're part of the vocal minority.

I've sunk over 6k hours into the gamemode (which I know for a fact are peasant numbers compared to some people who've sunk 20k+ hours) and admittedly at this point the primary reason I hang around is for the chance to enjoy gaming with the people I play with and not to throw down catas next to south wall of Bay for the 2,735th time.

tl;dr: the only form of open-world pvp is stagnant, but slapping pvp onto the existing type of pve content won't work to fix the problem, nor is it really even viable with the way this game's pve is designed.

~ Kovu

edit- ..."vocal" minority, not local minority. Pretty sure the ethnics in my neighborhood don't care about this game.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Regarding OpenWorld PvP:

ANet stated before that the PvP settings of the game are linked to the map and the map location. Essentially if a map is located in PVE they don't have a way of enabling PvP, and if they did (by moving the map to another zone) they'd enable pvp for everyone or no-one, free for all or server teams etc, depending on where they moved it.

This means:

• They can't "just" enable pvp in OW.
• They can't give players a "toggle" for on/off (unless that toggle just forced you into a different map in another mode).
• Can't use "part" of a map.

Unless they dedicate a whole lot of time/effort/resources into rewriting their entire "game mode" system. Which is likely more work than they're going to do before GW3.

Which is the best part about the OP's suggestion, because it rather bypasses all of those limitations, and moves the PVE experience to a separate map in WvW, where all of this is already established and organized. Including with pre-set teams to zerg the events with.

It also keeps the map out of World Completion for those that cares about that ;)

I'd just like to point out that they did, accidentally, provide a way to open-world PvP when Silverwastes was released. Before the bug was fixed, when you turned the bandits friendly, you'd turn hostile to other players.

What they meant by not being able to enable PvP is the PvP build system. Turning PvP on in PvE areas with the PvE build system actually is so simple they've done it by mistake.

That was (a) not the first time and (b) not the system anyone is asking for. Flagging every friendly as a hostile is easy. What they can't easily do is flag

some players

as hostile and other players as friendly. So the zone would be 100% PvP or, as it is now, 0%. There's no "opt in" easily available. That's trivially different from what we have now (some maps are PvP, some are WvW, and most are PvE).

Except, well, they did do that in the shatterer invasion event where people was continously getting branded and fighting the players that remained as two factions.

[Opopanax.1803]

Make 1 map instance of Silverwastes a 2 faction pvp war. Or maybe another pve map with a better 2 sided meta.

I like pvp but usually with pve objectives. Something feels lame about capture the flag/tower all the time.

[Thornwolf.9721]

@Cardolan.9123 said:What if there's a new WVW map that's designed similar to a PVE map? Instead of the towers camps keeps etc, it can have PVE features such as events, meta events, NPCs, renown hearts, and even map currencies. WVW server scores in this map can be calculated based on event completion and enemy players killed. This new WVW map kind of makes itself a PVE map with open world PVP enabled. Plus, the reward of farming this map should be no more than that of farming an ordinary PVE map, and there won't be any personal story in this map, so it will have zero influence to the PVE playerbase.Thoughts? (Still it's not likely gonna happen though)

Edit: highlighted clarification that what I suggest is purely a new WVW map, it has nothing to do with the PVE open world nor its rules.

I would love this, I want a rotation of more map themes. ( A elonian map based on elona, maybe one based on Ascalon? Orr?) So this way every week we have new maps to play on and the areas change so it doesn't grow stale. So lets say when we Re-link we get different maps or maybe even EVERY reset on friday we get a new set of maps? Would be so wonderful to have such different themes so I could go where the flavor I Desire is at the time. I want Egyptian/arabian themed sieges? Elona map.

These are the themes Id like to see in maps, please...

• Elona, like old school elona prior to guild wars 2 since the mists are echos of our past, present and an existential reality it could happen.
• Joko's kingdom deep in the wastes, full of undead and joko themed stuff
• Ascalon pre-searing
• A swamp themed one with dark dense underbrush, and fog-of-war.
• The fissure of woe
• Grenths domain
• Melandru's domain
• Dwayna's domain
• Kormirs
• The realm of torment
• The dwarven lands (Prior too guild wars 1)
• The stone forest and the jade sea (Even if we go there in guild wars 2, they wont be the same as they have more than likely reverted and been altered as has everything else. I Want it just like it was in guild wars 1 as two distinct maps.)

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Regarding OpenWorld PvP:

ANet stated before that the PvP settings of the game are linked to the map and the map location. Essentially if a map is located in PVE they don't have a way of enabling PvP, and if they did (by moving the map to another zone) they'd enable pvp for everyone or no-one, free for all or server teams etc, depending on where they moved it.

This means:

• They can't "just" enable pvp in OW.
• They can't give players a "toggle" for on/off (unless that toggle just forced you into a different map in another mode).
• Can't use "part" of a map.

Unless they dedicate a whole lot of time/effort/resources into rewriting their entire "game mode" system. Which is likely more work than they're going to do before GW3.

Which is the best part about the OP's suggestion, because it rather bypasses all of those limitations, and moves the PVE experience to a separate map in WvW, where all of this is already established and organized. Including with pre-set teams to zerg the events with.

It also keeps the map out of World Completion for those that cares about that ;)

I'd just like to point out that they did, accidentally, provide a way to open-world PvP when Silverwastes was released. Before the bug was fixed, when you turned the bandits friendly, you'd turn hostile to other players.

What they meant by not being able to enable PvP is the PvP build system. Turning PvP on in PvE areas with the PvE build system actually is so simple they've done it by mistake.

That was (a) not the first time and (b) not the system anyone is asking for. Flagging every friendly as a hostile is easy. What they can't easily do is flag

some players

as hostile and other players as friendly. So the zone would be 100% PvP or, as it is now, 0%. There's no "opt in" easily available. That's trivially different from what we have now (some maps are PvP, some are WvW, and most are PvE).

Except, well, they did do that in the shatterer invasion event where people was continously getting branded and fighting the players that remained as two factions.

Not really the same as what people are asking for when they want open world PvP. As

shows if you were branded you were turned into an NPC with a different set of skills.

So it appears open world PvP might be possible if players are willing to have their profession skills removed and replaced with a set of NPC skills.

[Xervite.5493]

Open world pvp is great tbh Anet could do something like blade and soul where you can flip the pvp mode switch on and off.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@Ben K.6238 said:

@"joneirikb.7506" said:Regarding OpenWorld PvP:

ANet stated before that the PvP settings of the game are linked to the map and the map location. Essentially if a map is located in PVE they don't have a way of enabling PvP, and if they did (by moving the map to another zone) they'd enable pvp for everyone or no-one, free for all or server teams etc, depending on where they moved it.

This means:

• They can't "just" enable pvp in OW.
• They can't give players a "toggle" for on/off (unless that toggle just forced you into a different map in another mode).
• Can't use "part" of a map.

Unless they dedicate a whole lot of time/effort/resources into rewriting their entire "game mode" system. Which is likely more work than they're going to do before GW3.

Which is the best part about the OP's suggestion, because it rather bypasses all of those limitations, and moves the PVE experience to a separate map in WvW, where all of this is already established and organized. Including with pre-set teams to zerg the events with.

It also keeps the map out of World Completion for those that cares about that ;)

I'd just like to point out that they did, accidentally, provide a way to open-world PvP when Silverwastes was released. Before the bug was fixed, when you turned the bandits friendly, you'd turn hostile to other players.

What they meant by not being able to enable PvP is the PvP build system. Turning PvP on in PvE areas with the PvE build system actually is so simple they've done it by mistake.

That was (a) not the first time and (b) not the system anyone is asking for. Flagging every friendly as a hostile is easy. What they can't easily do is flag

some players

as hostile and other players as friendly. So the zone would be 100% PvP or, as it is now, 0%. There's no "opt in" easily available. That's trivially different from what we have now (some maps are PvP, some are WvW, and most are PvE).

Except, well, they did do that in the shatterer invasion event where people was continously getting branded and fighting the players that remained as two factions.

Not really the same as what people are asking for when they want open world PvP. As

shows if you were branded you were turned into an NPC with a different set of skills.

So it appears open world PvP might be possible if players are willing to have their profession skills removed and replaced with a set of NPC skills.Getting other skills was part of the event, just like getting other skills when you push a button in WvW now with the coreswap event.

The GW2 scripting engine for handling stuff like this has been shown to be pretty darn powerful and flexible and tbh I see no limitations for Anet to implement WvW-like rules (ie joining a map as blue, green or red) onto any instance. I am certain Anet could do it if they wanted to.

It still doesnt make it any less pointless and futile on exisiting maps, but this topic was for new ones.

But granted I dont see it happening either way. To me this has always been a "maybe for GW3" thing.