100 Hours Sunk into Guild Wars 2 (A veteran MMORPG players takeaway)

[Speak.1065]

Hey All!I bought Guild Wars 2 about 2 weeks ago due to the pandemic currently leaving many of us quarantined. I have sunk 100+ hours into the game, currently I have a max lvl Core Guardian and a max lvl Reaper Necro. Initially I began this game after purchasing the "Guild Wars 2 Ultimate Package". I read the forums and started off by using the boost to bumble myself into part 1 of the PoF story in order to get the raptor mount and make my leveling experience more streamline and efficient then sidelined that character and leveled the Guardian and Necro. Currently my mastery lvl is about 70 and I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the leveling experience and the unique dynamic environment of each zone I was in. The map points of interest, vistas, questing style combined with a tailored/unique story based on your choices was engaging and rich. It is hands down the best leveling experience I have had, even topping KotOR, WoW, FFXIV and Firefall. The abilities, weapon combinations and specializations really made for an ever-changing rotation and interesting play style. Because of the above I very much appreciated this game.

However, here I am mastery lvl 70ish with 2 lvl 80 characters and a loss for words. I've done all the World Bosses multiple times, fractals up to 25, each dungeon at least 2-3 times in exploration mode, finished a tier 3 precursor weapon, 5 different mounts (and their masteries) done a few hundred jumping puzzles, PoF story, HoT story, and season 4 story. Yet I have not changed out a SINGLE piece of gear since I got a very cheap exotic set and weapon at lvl 80 (under 15g for each character). Considering all of this I asked myself a question this morning. "How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?" The answer is simple, he isn't and neither are any of yours. The depth of the requirements necessary to raid, and craft ascended gear is absolutely asphyxiating. I crafted Dusk, a Tier 3 precursor weapon and came to realize there was nothing special about it, it was the same stats as the 2g great-sword I bought when I hit 80. The 30+ hours I spent diligently grinding those achievement requirements out were a complete ripoff. My inventory is overflowing with unused crafting materials because my bank/crafting bank are overfilled. They have no use because no one needs Rare or Masterwork items. They generally vendor for more then they are worth on the BLTP. I started to lose interest in even looting because the only things that actually has a value are the zone specific currencies and karma. If you have the fanatical work ethic to forge Twilight, Sunrise, Eternity, etc, I guarantee you that same trait applied in the job market will make you millions. There is no reason to really do anything after 80 unless your enjoyment of a game is the cool skins your character can wear and achievement points in a journal only you can see. As much as I loved this games "open worldness", unique zones, one of a kind character quality and expansive ability systems there is no end game progression. The grind just stalls to a resounding "Why?".

I would still recommend this to people looking for a new experience. To any former Wow(Classic and Live), KotOR, and FFXIV veterans seeing this please try this game so you can see a completely different experience in the realm of MMORPG, you wont be disappointed! (Until 50 hours into lvl 80 maybe =P)

[Turkeyspit.3965]

@Speak.1065 said:There is no reason to really do anything after 80 unless your enjoyment of a game is the cool skins your character can wear and achievement points in a journal only you can see.

On the flipside though, the gear you worked hard to obtain will never become outdated and in need of replacement. Ironically in a game like WoW, the skin is all you really earn when you get a piece of gear to drop, because eventually in the next expansion, if not the very next content patch, a new iLV of gear will become available, and you have to grind for upgrades all over again.

I've also played in both worlds, and not having to run on a gear treadmill anymore is quite refreshing.

Crafting, and Legendary Crafting are endgame activities, for sure, as just levelling a crafter to 500 is pretty grindy, but again the flipside is your end game gear is all craftable, and not reliant on RNG drops from bosses on daily/weekly time gates.

As to what to do at LV 80, skins and APs are two very common end game activities, but so is exploring other characters and builds. With most rewards (AP, titles, skins, etc) being account wide, many players run a complete slate of fully gear characters that they use in a variety of content.

Competitive modes, PvP and WvW, are also a great place for content that is varied and doesn't get stale quickly, since the enemies you fight are different, and the tactics and builds you bring to those modes can also vary.

[Randulf.7614]

If there was nothing to do post 80, how have many of us sunk thousands of hours into post 80 content?

Not getting more powerful is not a bad thing. The game instead offers alternative ways to play through Elites, exploration and achievement based rewards and a regular cadence of open world content on top of small and large scale competitive action.

Now not all of that is going to appeal and I can see the appeal of vertical power creep as I do play another mmo which has it. But there are huge disadvantages to that which GW2 eliminates (mostly).

Endgame progession is certainly different here, but it def doesn’t stop. It’s just more open ended, and less likely to outdate

[Dawdler.8521]

Yeah meanwhile there are those of us sitting on 10,000+ hours over 8 years.

People coming into GW2 seeking "endgame progression" are missing the point. GW2 is the MMO eqvivalent of like... the "endgame progression" in the Battlefield series. There is just no such thing as "progression" once you get to a loadout you like. There is a learning curve for sure at 1-80 but it's like a tutorial, little more.

Endgame in GW2 is simply... playing the game. Play WvW if you want continous warfare. Play sPvP if you want quick matches. Play PvE if you just want to explore, get new fashion, achievements, instances etc.

Many of us are literally growing old with the game and are using it as a social hub while having fun. I mean what else are you going to do? Go on Twitter or Facebook? I'd rather dunk my head in a vat of acid.

[Cuks.8241]

Gw2 is the first mmorpg where I am actually playing the end game instead of grinding for something. I always hated in other games how everything but the latest patch and maybe 1 or 2 patches below is obsolete and soon becomes super easy.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

You can always progress your Mastery Level to 313.
Or your Achievement Point total to ~40,000.

Good luck.

[Danikat.8537]

Like other people here I prefer playing without that constant progression. I realise it's an adjustment if you're used to games where your goal is always to chase down the next thing you need to be allowed into the content you're interested in, but I much prefer it this way. Once you get to level 80 and have exotics with the right stat combination for your build then you can stop worrying about what you have to do and just focus on what you want to do. For me that makes the game a lot more fun.

And there are still goals to work towards if you want them, but because they're optional you can do them in whatever order you like and take your time with them. I recently finished a collection for an ascended backpack from Season 3, which I never got around to doing at the time. I didn't have to because I was able to play all the new content without it, but when I felt like doing it the process of unlocking that new item was still there for me to do.

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:You can always progress your Mastery Level to 313.
Or your Achievement Point total to ~40,000.

Good luck.

That reminds me, I haven't unlocked all the Icebrood Saga masteries yet. Maybe that can be one of my new goals. :)

[Raknar.4735]

There is no reason to really do anything after 80 unless your enjoyment of a game is the cool skins your character can wear and achievement points in a journal only you can see.

Well, the reason I play games is to have fun. So that‘s why I do stuff after 80, because I enjoy the gameplay. Skins and rewards are just a bonus.

I don‘t really enjoy grinding out gear anymore, just to have it replaced after a new patch comes out like when I played WoW.The way a character becomes stronger in GW2 is through personal skill.

[montecristo.1324]

"How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?"hands.I bet you just scrap the surface of the game. If you go in pvp, wvw or raids you will be a joke. And not because you are a bad player. Because you have not mastered anything. This is a game where builds, rotations, knowledge of the game, of the skills, of the animations, are all things that matter. Not a number attached to your loot. You want to be a stronger character? show it playing the game better than anybody with the same gear.

[Wisty.4135]

Gw2 is more about player growth than character growth for sure in terms of end game. 2 guys both in identical gear and class can have a wildly varying effectiveness in the same content due to how well they've mastered the game. Knowing when, how, and why to adapt a build in instanced pve, understanding enemy potential and strategy (in pvp), as well as your own personal limitations as a class/player are all things to work toward once your gear is set. Different gear pieces are mostly for skins versus any vertical progression.

Additionally, once you pick a build you don't have to stay with that build - knowing trait and skill synergies and experimenting/theory crafting new builds is a good deal of fun too since no class is limited to any one "role."

Overall, I'm glad you had fun with it. Now that you're 80, I encourage you to explore and tinker with what you can do with the game, not so much what the game can do for you.

[Safandula.8723]

@"montecristo.1324" said:"How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?"hands.I bet you just scrap the surface of the game. If you go in pvp, wvw or raids you will be a joke. And not because you are a bad player. Because you have not mastered anything. This is a game where builds, rotations, knowledge of the game, of the skills, of the animations, are all things that matter. Not a number attached to your loot. You want to be a stronger character? show it playing the game better than anybody with the same gear.

^ this.As even devs said dps diffrence between casual player and the one trying hard is about 10 Times more. This game is easy to get into, but hard to Master. Imo Gw2 Excel in amazing combat system, and getting better takes some Time and gives a lot of satisfaction

[Obtena.7952]

@"Speak.1065" said:There is no reason to really do anything after 80 unless your enjoyment of a game is the cool skins your character can wear and achievement points in a journal only you can see. As much as I loved this games "open worldness", unique zones, one of a kind character quality and expansive ability systems there is no end game progression. The grind just stalls to a resounding "Why?".

Hey, the answer is already obvious ... unfortunately, you have been pre-conditioned to think MMO's can only work if you have to grind for something to make you better. That's not true and GW2 is proof.

[Friday.7864]

All you've done is easy content tbh. T1 fractals (0-25) are a tutorial where you can ignore all mechanics and not die.T4 fractals + challenge modes, raids, any kind of serious PvP or WvW is skill based.Gear isn't what makes you a good player, it's your skills when it comes to using a class that sets you apart. Being able to pull DPS, reacting to mechanics in time, knowing when to use which skill, adapting your build to the situation, dodging at the right time... It all matters, a lot.

Make a meta build from snowcrows and go check your DPS at training golem. See if you can pull as much as the pros. Then check how much you can pull in situations where a single misstep can kill you and your entire party :)

[Dante.1763]

@Safandula.8723 said:

As even devs said dps diffrence between casual player and the one trying hard is about 10 Times more. This game is easy to get into, but hard to Master. Imo Gw2 Excel in amazing combat system, and getting better takes some Time and gives a lot of satisfaction

Not the words they used. They used the words average player and good player, and thats a far better wording than casual and try hard. Im a casual player, my DPS is almost always 2-3 in the raid groups ive been in, so im playing at an above average, almost good level.

[Excursion.9752]

The best way to describe how I feel about end game content is this.

While your character may plateau your personal development and skill level is where you profit. You get better as you have more experience in the game. It is very hard to be great in every area in this game. You will constantly improve but it is hard to master it all. I believe ANET wanted people to worry less about gear and focus more on your experiences. In time you accumulate resources and your ambitions may change. I have been playing this game since beta and there are still things that I have not experienced yet. Some things just don't interest me but on the other hand there are things that didn't grab me 1 month a go, that have got my attention now. My interest are forever evolving and I'd bet yours will too.

For having sub 200 hours into this game it would be hard to know how everything works and the ins and outs for one example fractals at level 25 is vastly different than 100cm. Everything you have experienced up to this point is a very small subset of what is really out there. If you keep playing you will evolve and grow and your priorities will follow suit. I suggest you set a long term goal like try to max out your masteries. It will be a long somewhat bumpy road but by the time you are done you will feel very different about your original post.

Hope you stick with it! Have fun.

[Teratus.2859]

@"Speak.1065" said:"How is my character becoming any stronger from any of this?" The answer is simple, he isn't and neither are any of yours.

This isn't technically true.

With Gw2 your character progression isn't based on stats and gear like most MMO's as you are aware.Instead it's more based on masteries and unlocking new abilities.. but that too is a little limited and there are many masteries that are often here and gone pretty fast.Some remain a constant and regular power up though like mounts, gliding and the mount utility abilities.

That said, where your characters real progression is... it's your skill as a player.Yes you can get stronger.. build stronger and more powerful builds.. learn how to really push them and get the absolute maximum damage or utility out of them etc.If that's your thing you can do that if you want to.. or you can try and build something invincible.. or you can go into PvP or WvW and aim to be the best of the best..That's the real character progression in Gw2 and it's entirely optional when you max out your gear and stats.

[Trise.2865]

You aren't getting stronger. You're getting better.Everything else is preaching to the choir here.

[GummyBearSummoner.7941]

I may be biased because I’ve been playing guild wars “1” since I was 13 & haven’t stopped playing the games since. The story in the first game got me hooked because the lore was really great imo. I remember the day from transition from guild wars 1 to guild wars 2 & I really loved the combat system. Till this day I believe the combat system in guild wars 2 is the best (at least for me) & it’s not something easy to master but overtime I’ve gotten better with my elementalist. Maybe you should consider mastering your combat skills, get some nice skins (like doing teq for chest drop or jungle wurm for armor), there’s lots of things you can do in this game. Ive been playing for 8 year & still find new goals to do

[XatraZaytrax.2601]

I am one of those 10000-plus hour people. I can attest that I have experienced a form of progression over the years in terms of skill. I went from never winning in pvp and avoiding it like the plague, to actually downing two players just last night by outwitting them. I went from barely being able to finish one small area of super adventure box when it first came out, to not only being able to fly through regukar levels, including glitches, to actually being able to do tribulation mode -- all except the last map, but I will work on it.

The thing about this game is that there seems to always be a new challenge there to take on if you want it. Sure, I don't like some of them, like those HOT mini games, but I feel good when I beat them to achievement. I guess, GW2s fun is all in ones head. I have always seen it like a sandbox with lots to choose from and lots of potential playmates

The game doesn't hold your hand, which sometimes is frustrating with harder content, but in that there is no easy mode. You can't just grind levels to make it easier, you have to really just "get good," which for me is often easier said than done. Grind is saved for the bling. Yes, I have Eternity, and was done when there was only original maps so few ways to easy gold.

I played wow for a while, but hated the combat, the pacing made it feel slow; hated loot sharing cause after a while I couldn't justify why I needed it over someone else and felt shamed into not going after it; exploration was frustrating, especially when the humans came onto the zone and kept tracking you down and killing you when all you wanted to do was mine something or finish a quest; found the quest system repetitive and over whelming.

Honestly, 100 hours is nothing to me in this game. Spent 16 hours this weekend messing around SAB and still didn't get to everything I wanted to do. Once did 24 hours straight in WvW, not a wise decision, but also not rare for people who enjoy the mode. I am always surprised when people say they have run out of stuff to do, there always seem to be more out there. Sure I get burned out of the game and modes, currently taking a break from wvw and playing other games, but I am always drawn back to gw2

[Witch of Doom.5739]

I'm one of the many who have been with GW2 since beta, and played GW before that. To me, there is no "end game." There is playing, and yes, even at my age I love to play. It's a game, and to me a game is to have fun; if you're not having fun, stop. The world of GW is not for everyone, and that's OK.

[Roche.7491]

Max level - fun

Finish story - fun

Get mount - convenience

Get ascended weapon - convenience

Max aesthetics - prestige

Max PVP Rank - competitive

Max character slots - diversity

Get another game - new world

[Skiravor.1257]

Lets see, 100hrs in for me...I was still running around in lowby areas, literally running (pre mount days) and wishing there was mounts and just exploring wishing there was gliders too lol

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@"Speak.1065" said:The grind just stalls to a resounding "Why?".

If you play GW2 long enough, then this question repeats itself in other games just the same. Why grind, when you can play. Ofcourse, a downside is that you feel lost and directionless when you're not guided to the next thing. This is something this game can definitely improve on.

Another downside is ofcourse, the content isnt crutched by this grind anymore, making it painfully obvious when it is lacking. In other games you can get hyped up for the next big thing, to the point it doesn't need to be as good. Not bad either ofcourse, but just not as good. I have found myself grinding meaningless tasks more often than not, realising much later than I would in GW2 I'm just going through this cycle rather than playing a game. Maybe just my experience.

But yes, in other games they artificially made grinding important by requiring you to do it, in this game it's entirely and ultimately optional.

[Zaklex.6308]

@Speak.1065 said:Hey All!~snip~. I read the forums and started off by using the boost to bumble myself into part 1 of the PoF story in order to get the raptor mount and make my leveling experience more streamline and efficient ~snip~

There's your first problem right there...using a boost to skip all the early content when building your character...going from 1 - 80 is the place to learn the game, you just skipped it and went right to the end.

[Speak.1065]

@Zaklex.6308 said:

@Speak.1065 said:Hey All!~snip~. I read the forums and started off by using the boost to bumble myself into part 1 of the PoF story in order to get the raptor mount and make my leveling experience more streamline and efficient ~snip~

There's your first problem right there...using a boost to skip all the early content when building your character...going from 1 - 80 is the place to learn the game, you just skipped it and went right to the end.

No I only actually got the mount. I haven't touched the character besides obtaining a form of transportation. As I was trying to do events at lvl 20-30 and people kept getting frustrated with me for not being able to move with them and I was getting frustrated unable to respond to events on the map that were high tier because they were generally gone by the time i got close.