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Please nerf Boneskinner and Whisper before Steam release

aaron.7850aaron.7850 Member ✭✭✭

I know the fights well and I never die any of their attacks, but as a commander with 0 friends I always lead PUG strikes and accept anyone who joins with open arms and no elitism, but I often get groups that no matter how much I patiently explain the mechanics some groups keep wiping and wiping, leading to toxicity, frustration and disbanding.

Those two fights are disproportionately hard when compared to all the other strikes. And In support of our soon-to-be steam neighbors I propose some adecuate nerfs to ensure everyone is having fun, which is what games should be all about.

I am not saying Anet should turn them into cake-walks, but the difficulty should be between Bears and Cold-War... not cold-war x3 times harder.

Comments

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2020

    I do both of those whenever they are up as a daily strike. I was in one of the first groups that completed Whisper of Jormag as well.

    Whisper of Jormag isn't fundamentally flawed unlike Boneskinner. Yes WoJ has a bunch of bugs (such as it not attacking below 25% , doing attacks way more often that it should, or doing a green circle mechanic at the same time as a red spread apart mechanic) and so does Boneskinner (for example the aftercast when using special action). Boneskinner literally has close to noone doing it "properly" the way the mission was designed and that's alarming.

    You can cheese Whisper of Jormag quite easily with spirits/legends (renegade)/wurm (scourges mainly) , up until the 25% when orbs fly out it is fairly forgiving provided people don't chain each other or stack red circles. With Boneskinner if you run a full minstrel/trailblazer comp basically noone ever instadowns to the black puddles but in a typical group you want three healers (usually it's 2 Healbrands and a druid , scourge, or tempest).

    The best carry class for Whisper of Jormag right now is a full condi scourge with the flesh wurm to stack barrier and block WoJ orbs.

    A scourge with blood magic for a 15s AOE pull res is basically the best option for Boneskinner : it doesn't even need to be a full heal scourge it just needs to pull people out of the danger zones into the stack for res. Minstrel HB is a close second for Boneskinner if you run Merciful Intervention but that has no res pull capability. I've seen people run scrapper as well but function gyro cooldown after resurrection of more than one person is problematic.

    Because I mostly WvW, when I run Healbrand I usually am in minstrel gear. What I noticed is that both Boneskinner and Whisper of Jormag do not ignore armor unlike the Frigid Footfalls effect in Cold War , that's a flat 10% of maximum health per tick so you actually want zero vitality or toughness gear.

    So if there's any changes to be made, I would say maybe Boneskinner should probably slap players with conditions instead of power damage similar to fractal instabilities and the large pull that it does should not occur if the CC bar is broken. The ability of players to actually keep torches alight would be greatly impacted by such a change: right now it simply isn't practical for most builds. Bleeding, poison, torment, burning, etc could be applied at random. That would make the encounter more forgiving (conditions tick slower) but also make heal scrappers and tempests more potent.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think it will effect steam players but I agree these bosses need some attention.

    Whisper isn't all that hard tbh, i've killed it with pugs without too much difficulty.
    For the most part you just gotta learn it's mechanics.. and tbh this is ultimately what the hardest strikes should be like.

    Boneskinner.. this guy is just completely broken.
    I refuse to do this boss because I don't want to cheese it like virtually everyone does at this point because of how stupidly OP it's mechanics are.
    This thing is harder to fight legit than a good portion of raid bosses imo and on that alone it does not belong in strikes in it's current form.
    It's mechanics need a reworking and this ability to cheese it needs to be taken away as well.
    No boss should be so annoying and difficult to fight that it becomes easier to cheese kill it and ignore all it's mechanics instead.. when this happens I consider it a design flaw of the boss more than anything..

  • @Teratus.2859 said:
    I don't think it will effect steam players but I agree these bosses need some attention.

    Whisper isn't all that hard tbh, i've killed it with pugs without too much difficulty.
    For the most part you just gotta learn it's mechanics.. and tbh this is ultimately what the hardest strikes should be like.

    Boneskinner.. this guy is just completely broken.
    I refuse to do this boss because I don't want to cheese it like virtually everyone does at this point because of how stupidly OP it's mechanics are.
    This thing is harder to fight legit than a good portion of raid bosses imo and on that alone it does not belong in strikes in it's current form.
    It's mechanics need a reworking and this ability to cheese it needs to be taken away as well.
    No boss should be so annoying and difficult to fight that it becomes easier to cheese kill it and ignore all it's mechanics instead.. when this happens I consider it a design flaw of the boss more than anything..

    You wont like raids then. More than half of the bosses mechanics can be ignored purely though good dps.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are a variety of Strike Missions of differing difficulty levels. Why seek to remove diversity? Why actively pursue reducing the number of play styles accommodated by the game?

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Algreg.3629 said:
    so in essence this has nothing to do with Steam. And even if I followed your idea of connecting these two things, I think the average gaming skill level of the Steam audience is considerably above the current GW2 demographic.

    really? be prepared for a surprise, steam has a HUGE playerbase, and many of them are even below me in skill level.
    i hear the constant "but GW2 is so easy, compared to other mmos" , but in reality, its not
    unless they get their own forums too, be prepared for A LOT of nerf threads

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well i dont expect anet to nerf them but they certainly should rework a few details on both strikes because mainly on boneskinner because it goes against their ideals for why strikes exists in the first place with the only way people can really successfully complete it.

    I dont propose a nerf sorry OP i dont agree with you on that. But QoL is in order for both these strikes for good reason.

    With both strikes
    1 Aoe's are buggy and some times either dont spawn or are totally inaccurate which makes it super hard for newer players to the strikes to actually avoid damage. This is especially bad in boneskinner with his jump attack that pulls everyone to the middle. A red circle fills the room but if you wait till its 90% full to dodge you have already been hit. For some reason you must dodge when the ring is around 70-80% to avoid the hit rather than when its closer to 100%. Sometimes when bone skinner runs forward to break a torch and jumps back to the middle there is no tell ring so players stand there and get smashed.
    2 Some attacks are just generally buggy this is much worse with whisper of jormag. Usually doing its last phase startting at 25% it sometimes buggs causing him to perform several different attacks all at once. I have been in that strike where he did the initial knock back attack after spawning 4 times in a row while performing other attacks like wave swipes, and orbs. Stuff like this wipes even experienced groups and its generally not fun when it happens.

    Boneskinner's main issues.
    No one actually attempts to do the fight the way it was mechanically intended because time wont allow it if you want good rewards. When the strike first came out it was often more difficult for players to perform the actual mechanics and get the fight done in any kind of timely fashion. Thus the current stack strat was made because it allows players to by pass all the mechanics that they should be doing but its risky when not all players are on the same page which is the frustrating part.

    Solutions for players who dont want risk the stacking strat.
    1 add more time to the strike over all allowing players to do the fight as intended.
    2 Add more time only when the intended mechanics are completed rewarding players for performing the mechanics of the fight.
    3 leave the stack strat as a optional thing for more coordinated groups.

    Whispers main issues.
    To be honest this one is more about the bugs than anything just fix the bugs and its more or less kinda golden. The rest of this fight is more so visual than anything.

    Solutions for QoL
    1 Fix the bugs, can i dodge ice spikes or not 50% of the time I can 50% of the time it wont let me even when timed correctly. Seriously look at Whisper in its post 25% phase having it bugg out and spam every single attack at once is super frustrating and can turn a solid gold run in to a bronze run.
    2 Make it more obvious to a player when they are chained so they are less likely to kill others with their chains. The colors of the chains themselves are hard to see through the visuals and maybe thats intended and is fine for everyone who is not chained but for the player who is chained i think the chain could stand out a bit more.
    3 Like the other strike suggestion consider adding bonus time for properly performing certain mechanics (breaking its defiance bar quickly etc)

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:
    You wont like raids then. More than half of the bosses mechanics can be ignored purely though good dps.

    I dont fully agree with this statement while yes some things are ignored with good dps there are still often options that allow players to still be successful when dps is lacking. Its one thing to ignore a few mechanics but in the case of boneskinner where near everything about it is ignored entirely defeats the purpose of why strikes were made. Xera is a good example where you can skip some of the mechanics with good dps but you dont get to ignore the special action usage or buttons or several other things about the fight. Boneskinner pretty much ignores the torches and many times the whisp and even in some cases breaking its defiance bar which is just insanity its just burte forcing it to the max which is not good for unorganized pug groups.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2020

    Even though it's not going to happen, what GW2 would need for the Steam release is a reworked (slowly ramping) much more challenging core experience in which players past the first few tutorial levels (1-30) can't just walk around holding down autoattack or simply pressing everything off cool down anymore, to actually prepare players better for later content such as HoT or instanced PvE in general.

    Tutorialise the importance of boons, give mobs pulsing boons, give mobs breakbars which telegraph devastating attacks that need to be interrupted, etc.

    Not a nerf to the ~1% of content this game has in which holding down W and 1 isn't enough to win and get showered in meaningless shinies.

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  • Aza.2105Aza.2105 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Both bosses are fine. I did them on my first try after taking a long break from gw2. I'm not even a pve focused player. I didn't know any of the mechanics either, just used common sense. Big circles on the floor and seeing everyone move to the left? Maybe I should move to the left too. One cool thing about gw2 is how for well things are explained visually.

  • I do not think this is required.

    Strikes are meant to be a gateway to raids, so an element of difficulty is to be expected. In my opinion, difficulty should be turned up for Strikes, not down. I do not normally vote for more difficult content as I tend not to enjoy it, however Strikes are an exception for me. I like the challenge and I eventually want to start raiding anyway.

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  • Xca.9721Xca.9721 Member ✭✭✭

    If you don´t like challenges, feel free to do the easier strikes. Boneskinner and WoJ are both easy fights that punish you for not paying attention to simple mechanics. Not every strike boss should be beatable by mindlessly spamming autoattack.

  • Whisper is fine, it's just people can't stop moving with chains and dodge deadly-whirling aoe.
    Boneskinner needs to be reworked, because we shouldn't be able to ignore mechanics.

    Master of garbage builds and being useless.

  • Thosd 2 needs to be fixed to allow more ppl to finish them

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Slightly off topic, but how does Cold War compare? I tried it early on but it was heavily bugged and have't returned since. I had assumed it was the hardest of the Strikes, but is that not the case? I consider myself average at best

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Ototo.3214Ototo.3214 Member ✭✭✭

    I disagree. I've completed them, and will acknowledge they are harder, but I was under the impression that that was kinda the point. Strikes were supposedly meant to be stepping stones toward raids, so it makes sense for there to be somewhat of a gradient in difficulty between them; some will be easy, some harder. If they were all the same difficulty there isn't much point.

  • ParadoX.3124ParadoX.3124 Member ✭✭✭

    It's not like bonneskinner is hard and need a nerf, it's more like he is bugged on CC special action and dmg is so high you don't even have time to walk and light the torches.
    Way easier to cheese it with overheal

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zombyturtle.5980 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I don't think it will effect steam players but I agree these bosses need some attention.

    Whisper isn't all that hard tbh, i've killed it with pugs without too much difficulty.
    For the most part you just gotta learn it's mechanics.. and tbh this is ultimately what the hardest strikes should be like.

    Boneskinner.. this guy is just completely broken.
    I refuse to do this boss because I don't want to cheese it like virtually everyone does at this point because of how stupidly OP it's mechanics are.
    This thing is harder to fight legit than a good portion of raid bosses imo and on that alone it does not belong in strikes in it's current form.
    It's mechanics need a reworking and this ability to cheese it needs to be taken away as well.
    No boss should be so annoying and difficult to fight that it becomes easier to cheese kill it and ignore all it's mechanics instead.. when this happens I consider it a design flaw of the boss more than anything..

    You wont like raids then. More than half of the bosses mechanics can be ignored purely though good dps.

    I am aware of that lol.

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The game should not change, just because it's going on steam.

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • I’ve ran pug groups for the last 5 days and have cleared both no problem. Boneskinner just requires 1-2 hs to be honest.

    And the heart of it is: it’s doable, so why nerf it? Must we have a game where every single content is easily done by pug groups on the first try? I’m glad that boneskinner and whisper are the only two strikes that actually require some form of a comp and brain to complete instead of the first 3 which are just liters golem fights.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I sincerely doubt this will be any issue for new players, since they will be in core tyria for a -long- time to come. Not to forget the fact that those two strike bosses are now part of past episodes that now is paid content. So no, nerfs is completely unneeded.

  • GummyBearSummoner.7941GummyBearSummoner.7941 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2020

    I would prefer not to see anymore nerfs in the game. I really loved HoT & it’s sad that it got nerf when honestly it was just LtP issues. This game is a bit too casual for the most part & I like a challenge. It helps me become a better player not just for myself but for when I’m in a group. The fight is fine as it is .

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2020

    As someone who experienced Rift being added to Steam. Steam will end up introducing a bunch of level 80 "pro gamers" who know nothing about their class or how to play the game think they should be doing end game content on day 3.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Josiah.2967 said:
    As someone who experienced Rift being added to Steam. Steam will end up introducing a bunch of level 80 "pro gamers" who know nothing about their class or how to play the game think they should be doing end game content on day 3.

    Nah mate Day 1

  • Lurana.7506Lurana.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    I disagree. There are enough easy strike missions and by nerf WoJ and Boneskinner the whole point of strikes leading to raids would be gone. I've done WoJ and Boneskinner with many PUG groups - sometimes as commander and in that case never asked for KP or LI - and even though Boneskinner may be hard with PUGs killed both of them succesfully many times. In my experience it is a great feeling for some players who never killed them before to actually succeed after some tries. Yes, there are groups that get frustrated and player leave but that's normally the case when there is a different skill level among players. If some players want to learn and others (experienced players) just want to get their dailies done it can lead to frustration. But if u set up a LFG and clearly state it's a learning/beginner group that's not a problem. Because if experienced players join those groups, they know what they get and just want to help.

  • Lurana.7506Lurana.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Slightly off topic, but how does Cold War compare? I tried it early on but it was heavily bugged and have't returned since. I had assumed it was the hardest of the Strikes, but is that not the case? I consider myself average at best

    The hardest is Boneskinner, followed by WoJ I guess. Though boneskinner is easy with a group that knows what to do it can be hard if there's just one player who doesn't know what to do. Cold War is just a little bit more stressful for healers if u have a group that splits up or players running off on their own. But mostly Cold War is fairly easy I think. Maybe a bit harder than Kodan

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2020

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Slightly off topic, but how does Cold War compare? I tried it early on but it was heavily bugged and have't returned since. I had assumed it was the hardest of the Strikes, but is that not the case? I consider myself average at best

    I've done Cold War over 100 times at this rate ; I'm actually the first one to put up a guide on the wiki.
    The first part has no fail state. You can literally wipe and it will only affect the chests given out at the end. Some people actually just "gg" and afk the 8 min timer to open the instance for their guildmates just to get the weekly chest.
    If you actually want maximum or close to maximum end chests , the first part requires large amounts of cleave (i.e. AOE) and pulls and someone to take care of choppers with the chaarzookas that spawn after defeating a Cannoneer. The "mini-bosses" essentially have the effects the boss will have , each one will have one additional effect. If you don't take care of choppers they will drop bombs on your group and also you will be unable to charge the artillery guns effectively. Charging the artillery guns unlocks a large AoE artillery strike so you should save the special action for a large group of enemies.

    To fully understand the strike's boss fight (which requires about 4K DPS per squad member to complete successfully within the 7 min timer) , there's only two major things to know:
    1. Varinia will call for assassins and then that will make red circles. It's the same red circle mechanic as in other strikes because people zone out on the boss fight they're highly liable to down from it. All other non-effect damage is non lethal more or less. If you dodge outward when she has the popup chatbox over her you should have zero issue.
    2. The effects Frigid Footfalls and Icy Echoes rotate based on week , two out of three weeks are Icy Echoes.
    ---> This week it is Icy Echoes which pulses damage per 2 seconds, so with it comes the green circle mechanic (stack green) and a chill pulse (jump it or just cleanse it).
    ---> If it is Frigid footfalls that is an armor ignoring 10% damage per tick with perma chill if you stand in it. From my testing on various classes, it is roughly 200 radius because a holosmith in Photon Forge is able to hit as well as in bomb kit. The easiest way to deal with it is simply running a scourge (especially with 5s cooldown on Nefarious Favor) or a tempest heavy comp stacked just outside the radius of the Frigid Footfalls. The "meta" professions that can stand in it are heal firebrands and alacrity renegades with Dance of Death traited as in the meta build. You could theoretically run Invigorating Precision on a staff daredevil , or run scrapper, but that's not optimal for the first half which favors large cleave. When it is Frigid Footfalls week then it will also be a reflect week (Frozen barrier), which is why you wouldn't want to run a projectile type build such as condi Berserker or Condi soulbeast.

    Builds for both weeks , so you don't have to pay attention to the week:

    • Condi Scourge with Spectral Grasp (make alacrity on people during Frigid Footfalls week with Nefarious Favor)
    • DPS Fresh air Tempest
    • Heal Firebrand (quickness)/ Heal Druid (for might , does not need to stack in Frigid Footfalls)
    • Alacrity renegade

    Other notes:

    • Guardian cQB isn't an option with a 1-2 heal comp because you will implode when people don't pay attention and keep attacking with Icy echoes up ; also dies quickly with inadequate healing on Frigid Footfalls
    • Berserker is good normally but it doesn't have range and without pulls it can't hit things far away : a huge liability for Frigid Footfalls because of the large health pool (it's armor ignoring 10% base health and warrior has some of the largest health pool along with necro)
    • Mirage is a disaster because clones die and it's basically useless for first half ; chrono is a bit better for first half if you do 10 man quickness with focus pulls and don't run mostly boon duration gear but you won't have any decent usability of clones at the boss fight and you will be taking damage in melee range in the boss fight
    • Thief just doesn't have any ranged AoE outside shortbow which isn't enough to bring one ; for the boss fight you would want to run Invigorating Precision
    • You can run holo for the first half if it isn't Frigid footfalls week (Photon Blitz is reflected by Frozen Barrier). Scrapper is usable for the boss fight regardless of week.
    • General note : In theory you can disable all the effects on Varinia by breaking her CC bar, but the CC bar comes back up quite quickly (even when using EMP 2.0) and people just don't pay attention so it's better to build a squad with the idea of people autoattacking half the fight.
  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lurana.7506 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Slightly off topic, but how does Cold War compare? I tried it early on but it was heavily bugged and have't returned since. I had assumed it was the hardest of the Strikes, but is that not the case? I consider myself average at best

    The hardest is Boneskinner, followed by WoJ I guess. Though boneskinner is easy with a group that knows what to do it can be hard if there's just one player who doesn't know what to do. Cold War is just a little bit more stressful for healers if u have a group that splits up or players running off on their own. But mostly Cold War is fairly easy I think. Maybe a bit harder than Kodan

    OK thanks, maybe I will brave it next time it is on priority

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Slightly off topic, but how does Cold War compare? I tried it early on but it was heavily bugged and have't returned since. I had assumed it was the hardest of the Strikes, but is that not the case? I consider myself average at best

    I've done Cold War over 100 times at this rate ; I'm actually the first one to put up a guide on the wiki.
    The first part has no fail state. You can literally wipe and it will only affect the chests given out at the end. Some people actually just "gg" and afk the 8 min timer to open the instance for their guildmates just to get the weekly chest.
    If you actually want maximum or close to maximum end chests , the first part requires large amounts of cleave (i.e. AOE) and pulls and someone to take care of choppers with the chaarzookas that spawn after defeating a Cannoneer. The "mini-bosses" essentially have the effects the boss will have , each one will have one additional effect. If you don't take care of choppers they will drop bombs on your group and also you will be unable to charge the artillery guns effectively. Charging the artillery guns unlocks a large AoE artillery strike so you should save the special action for a large group of enemies.

    To fully understand the strike's boss fight (which requires about 4K DPS per squad member to complete successfully within the 7 min timer) , there's only two major things to know:
    1. Varinia will call for assassins and then that will make red circles. It's the same red circle mechanic as in other strikes because people zone out on the boss fight they're highly liable to down from it. All other non-effect damage is non lethal more or less. If you dodge outward when she has the popup chatbox over her you should have zero issue.
    2. The effects Frigid Footfalls and Icy Echoes rotate based on week , two out of three weeks are Icy Echoes.
    ---> This week it is Icy Echoes which pulses damage per 2 seconds, so with it comes the green circle mechanic (stack green) and a chill pulse (jump it or just cleanse it).
    ---> If it is Frigid footfalls that is an armor ignoring 10% damage per tick with perma chill if you stand in it. From my testing on various classes, it is roughly 200 radius because a holosmith in Photon Forge is able to hit as well as in bomb kit. The easiest way to deal with it is simply running a scourge (especially with 5s cooldown on Nefarious Favor) or a tempest heavy comp stacked just outside the radius of the Frigid Footfalls. The "meta" professions that can stand in it are heal firebrands and alacrity renegades with Dance of Death traited as in the meta build. You could theoretically run Invigorating Precision on a staff daredevil , or run scrapper, but that's not optimal for the first half which favors large cleave. When it is Frigid Footfalls week then it will also be a reflect week (Frozen barrier), which is why you wouldn't want to run a projectile type build such as condi Berserker or Condi soulbeast.

    Builds for both weeks , so you don't have to pay attention to the week:

    • Condi Scourge with Spectral Grasp (make alacrity on people during Frigid Footfalls week with Nefarious Favor)
    • DPS Fresh air Tempest
    • Heal Firebrand (quickness)/ Heal Druid (for might , does not need to stack in Frigid Footfalls)
    • Alacrity renegade

    Thanks for this. I'll try and abosrb it all before I go in

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Leave them as they are, Steam players can decide on their own what content they want to play.
    If they deem them too difficult and/or don't play them for other reasons Arenanet will still gain some valuable statistics about this type of content and what people prefer to play ingame.

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  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    The first part has no fail state. You can literally wipe and it will only affect the chests given out at the end. Some people actually just "gg" and afk the 8 min timer to open the instance for their guildmates just to get the weekly chest.

    It may have worked before but it doesn’t anymore. When you gg, it revives you back at the entrance and the timer stops.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lurana.7506 said:
    I disagree. There are enough easy strike missions and by nerf WoJ and Boneskinner the whole point of strikes leading to raids would be gone. I've done WoJ and Boneskinner with many PUG groups - sometimes as commander and in that case never asked for KP or LI - and even though Boneskinner may be hard with PUGs killed both of them succesfully many times. In my experience it is a great feeling for some players who never killed them before to actually succeed after some tries. Yes, there are groups that get frustrated and player leave but that's normally the case when there is a different skill level among players. If some players want to learn and others (experienced players) just want to get their dailies done it can lead to frustration. But if u set up a LFG and clearly state it's a learning/beginner group that's not a problem. Because if experienced players join those groups, they know what they get and just want to help.

    the only part i dont agree with like many other people who make this argument is that boneskinners mechanics are nearly fully ignored not because its easier but because the intended mechanics are bad to perform in comparison to the time given for good rewards. If strikes are intended to be stepping stones to raids why would you want a strike that teaches people to basically not perform mechanics and embraces the brute force method (which is exactly what the meta strategy for boneskinner is currently)

    But yes the rest of your statement is generally facts.

    Brute force certainly can work but thats a far cry from some peoples skill levels in the game especially those with no raid exp.
    Im ok with Brute force being an option or even a meta option but it kind of bugs me that its the only option only because the intended mechanical way is just poorly constructed in comparison to time given to complete the strike for good rewards it is designed rather poorly compared to all other strikes.

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Majority of PvE content is to easy. It is okay to have some things you need to work for.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think there is any need to dump down the game merely because it's going to be available on $team.
    Arenanet didn't bother to adjust raids for the vast majority of the current player base, so I doubt they would adjust those Strike Missions for $team users.

  • DirtyDan.4759DirtyDan.4759 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2020

    No, get good. Strikes are a "stepping stone to raids" which means there is an increase in difficulty. Even a dog would learn with a bit of training that when the owner raises his arm he should move to the side. That's literally what you have to do at boneskinner. The aoes on the ground appear when he raises his right arm.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aaron.7850 said:
    I know the fights well and I never die any of their attacks, but as a commander with 0 friends I always lead PUG strikes and accept anyone who joins with open arms and no elitism, but I often get groups that no matter how much I patiently explain the mechanics some groups keep wiping and wiping, leading to toxicity, frustration and disbanding.

    Those two fights are disproportionately hard when compared to all the other strikes. And In support of our soon-to-be steam neighbors I propose some adecuate nerfs to ensure everyone is having fun, which is what games should be all about.

    I am not saying Anet should turn them into cake-walks, but the difficulty should be between Bears and Cold-War... not cold-war x3 times harder.

    These "you must change x thing I don't like/struggle with because Steam" threads are getting so played out.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In order for Steam users to play Strikes, they'd need first to buy the expansion. How about they focus on that first? How to turn Steam free players into paid customers.

  • 99% of content can be completed in green and blue off stat gear spamming 1. Leave the little difficult content alone. You are really not going to like next weeks update.

  • @Xca.9721 said:
    If you don´t like challenges, feel free to do the easier strikes. Boneskinner and WoJ are both easy fights that punish you for not paying attention to simple mechanics. Not every strike boss should be beatable by mindlessly spamming autoattack.

    This tbh. Just unbug both strikes, which'll probably make whisper "easier" (though it's really just avoiding a random oneshot potential), and boneskinner harder :D

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    1 Fix the bugs, can i dodge ice spikes or not 50% of the time I can 50% of the time it wont let me even when timed correctly.

    It seems to be some kind of a desync problem - basically all spikes for all players are supposed to hit at the same time, but sometimes they are a little bit off, so you can dodge one spike just to be hit by the one from other player immediately afterward. It's even worse when spikes happen during the flying part, because the attack while in mid-flight seems to be often desynced compared to the on-ground indicator.

    Seriously look at Whisper in its post 25% phase having it bugg out and spam every single attack at once is super frustrating and can turn a solid gold run in to a bronze run.

    Yeah, that can be definitely annoying. Some attack combos should not be allowed, and there should be a limit for how many can happen at the same time.

    @Lurana.7506 said:
    I disagree. There are enough easy strike missions and by nerf WoJ and Boneskinner the whole point of strikes leading to raids would be gone.

    There was never a point to it, tbh. People that do not like raids won;t suddenly start liking them "because strikes". Nor will strikes cause a general increase in overall player skill. That one was a failed plan from the very beginning. Assuming that it was even a serious plan to begin with, instead of being a PR measure to soften the effect of announcing that raids are getting abandoned.

    @lokh.2695 said:
    The game should not change, just because it's going on steam.

    That i agree on. Those bosses should be changed because there are several problems with them as they are currently, not due to steam.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Raizel.1839Raizel.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    Another "do X before Steam release"...stop please, these are becoming meme threads.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don’t see what this, and other similar thread have to do with Steam players. It’s as if people are just taking the opportunity to request whatever it is that they personally want under the guise of it being for Steam players. Many of these suggestions would really have no impact on Steam players.

    What Anet should focus on, if they were to do anything in the first place, is improving the experience for those starting the game as brand new players. This could be fixing those broken core Tyria events, lightening up on the NPE restrictions, etc. You know, things that would directly impact players, such as those from Steam, and increase the chances of retaining them.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    It’s as if people are just taking the opportunity to request whatever it is that they personally want under the guise of it being for Steam players.

    That's because that's exactly what they are trying.

  • I thought that harder content is what kept people motivated to keep playing and getting better in order to get better stuff. Oh, wait. It's GW2.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    I thought that harder content is what kept people motivated to keep playing and getting better in order to get better stuff. Oh, wait. It's GW2.

    Actually, that's not GW2 specific. The motivation you speak of is something that affects only a minority of players in any mmorpg. Most players just want a content they can use to kill time.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2020

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    I thought that harder content is what kept people motivated to keep playing and getting better in order to get better stuff. Oh, wait. It's GW2.

    There probably is not a single MMORPG (if any game at all) were the majority of players are motivated by high difficulty.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sitarskee.5738 said:
    I thought that harder content is what kept people motivated to keep playing and getting better in order to get better stuff. Oh, wait. It's GW2.

    Actually, that's not GW2 specific. The motivation you speak of is something that affects only a minority of players in any mmorpg. Most players just want a content they can use to kill time.

    Isn't any content in a video game basically killing time?