Why are some of the armor looks revealing only for female character?

[Tachenon.5270]

57 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Because fur isn't armor, it wouldn't stop anything sharper than a butter knife.

 

That's right! Which is why I was so careful to add that it 'seems like they would have very specialized (and efficient!) forms of armor that takes their furriness into account'. Like, I dunno, some sort of coolant system incorporated into the armor. After all, what good is armor if you pass out from heat exhaustion while wearing it? Unconsciousness vs butter knife = wooooopsie. 😁

 

Alas! That ship has not only sailed, it sank somewhere in the Sea of Sorrows and was swallowed by a karkarodon karkarias with a nonkittenous tumor of the pituitary gland named Bruce. The shark, that is, not the gland.

[Rasimir.6239]

49 minutes ago, Faccina.5091 said:

you mean that the skins are linked to the weight in some weird way ?

Did you ever play with paper dolls that you can dress with cardboard cutouts? You normally can't mix and match the clothes between different dolls because they have different shapes.

 

Armor weights in GW2 are similar. If you look closely, you'll find that the seam between shirt and pants (for example) is not quite in the same place for each weight. It wasn't so much a code problem as a design decision when it came to the 3d models used for the different weights, designing each weight separately. You'd basically have to redesign every armor model in game to make them all line up across weights.

[Faccina.5091]

but thats a visual problem not a coding one, theres for example the seven reaper shoes that pass through any coat or the haunted warhorn that is half in the leg when in combat or the dont remember wich backpack that goes into any asura head

[Danikat.8537]

44 minutes ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

 

That's right! Which is why I was so careful to add that it 'seems like they would have very specialized (and efficient!) forms of armor that takes their furriness into account'. Like, I dunno, some sort of coolant system incorporated into the armor. After all, what good is armor if you pass out from heat exhaustion while wearing it? Unconsciousness vs butter knife = wooooopsie. 😁

 

Alas! That ship has not only sailed, it sank somewhere in the Sea of Sorrows and was swallowed by a karkarodon karkarias with a nonkittenous tumor of the pituitary gland named Bruce. The shark, that is, not the gland.

'Fun' fact: some of the Crusades happened during the era of full plate armour in Europe, so you had knights in basically an articulated tin can fighting in the Middle East in full sun. Their solution was to add a tabard over the top (often white or light coloured fabric) to deflect some of the heat and otherwise put up with it.

I imagine the charr would be similar. They might make some adaptions to their armour to make it cooler but I suspect they'd ultimately favour protection over comfort.

[Andy.5981]

To the OP Google Borat in Mankini.

That is why.

/thread

Edited November 17, 2021 by Andy.5981

[Gibson.4036]

3 hours ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

 

That's right! Which is why I was so careful to add that it 'seems like they would have very specialized (and efficient!) forms of armor that takes their furriness into account'. Like, I dunno, some sort of coolant system incorporated into the armor. After all, what good is armor if you pass out from heat exhaustion while wearing it? Unconsciousness vs butter knife = wooooopsie. 😁

 

Except the insulating benefit of fur works both ways. It keeps warm but it also keeps cool.

Exrapolating from real world furry animals, Charr don't sweat, and are adapted to shedding heat some other way. They seem to keep their mouths open as default, so perhaps their tongues function as heat sinks. Their footwear also seems to be a covering on the top of their feet, so perhaps they also cool themselves through the pads of their paws. Their four ears and constantly swishing tails may have a cooling function as well.

______________________

As to the OP, a little while ago on another thread someone made the accusation that ANet armor design is getting more conservative because of some recent cultural trends the poster perceived. That caused me to go looking, and I found more revealing designs, both male and female, in recent years.

Yes, the bulk of armor is weirdly separated between male and female. It's not just how much skin is shown, there are plenty of sets you wouldn't even know were suposed to be the same armor because the male version is so vastly different than the female.

But, that seems to be changing. I'll see if I can find that post and link it back so you can see what I mean.

I am wholeheartedly in favor of more open armor for male characters. I really want to be able to display Sylvari bioluminescence and Asura skin patterns, and I'd like Norn and Charr players not to lose their tattoos and fur patterns.

Swimsuit skins would also be a welcome addition. Especially since they are already in the game on some NPCs.

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Tachenon.5270]

14 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Except the insulating benefit of fur works both ways. It keeps warm but it also keeps cool.

Exrapolating from real world furry animals, Charr don't sweat, and are adapted to shedding heat some other way. They seem to keep their mouths open as default, so perhaps their togues function as heat sinks. Their footwear also seems to be a covering on the top of their feet, so perhaps they also cool themselves through the pads of their paws. Their four ears and constantly swishing tails may have a cooling function as well.

 

I like the idea that the ears (quadrophonic hearing! woot!) contribute to temperature regulation, along with panting, paw pads, and the swishing tail. But what happens to the insulating benefit of fur when its swathed in cloth, leather, or metal?

 

1 hour ago, Danikat.8537 said:

'Fun' fact: some of the Crusades happened during the era of full plate armour in Europe, so you had knights in basically an articulated tin can fighting in the Middle East in full sun. Their solution was to add a tabard over the top (often white or light coloured fabric) to deflect some of the heat and otherwise put up with it.

I imagine the charr would be similar. They might make some adaptions to their armour to make it cooler but I suspect they'd ultimately favour protection over comfort.

 

But the Crusaders were human and while some might have been hirsute, perhaps even exceptionally so, they probably didn't have actual fur. I just can't see fur and armor working well together unless the armor is designed to accommodate the fur, or the fur is, as previously mentioned, shaved to accommodate the armor. Taking the idea of adding a tabard a little further, though, imagine charr running around with parasols on their helms. That would be cool! From a fashion standpoint, anyway... maybe... heh.

[Gibson.4036]

47 minutes ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

 

I like the idea that the ears (quadrophonic hearing! woot!) contribute to temperature regulation, along with panting, paw pads, and the swishing tail. But what happens to the insulating benefit of fur when its swathed in cloth, leather, or metal?

 

Not a whole lot? I mean, you've already got that insulated space, what difference is the fur making? Assuming a horse-hair or cotton stuffed gambeson under the armor on a human, and I don't see Charr fur being much different.

Assuming Charr function like real world animals, their fur also moves according to their body's needs, lying flat when less insulation is required, or bristling up when more is needed.

This reminds me of the question I get periodically, "does your beard make you hot in the summer?" In fact, no.

And, of course, there is how far you want to take reality in a fantasy. Medieval knights, outside of tournaments, rarely fought each other. Theirs was a privileged station sitting on the back of a horse mowing down each other's unarmored, poorly armed peasants. Like real war throughout history, the elites were very good at making sure a lot of the plebs died while they remained relatively risk free.

Full plate armor wasn't used to jump and dodge around in the kind of athletic fantasy combat we have in GW2, or for marching long distances. You traveled to the area of a battle, suited up, slaughtered a bunch of serfs, then retired back to your pavilion.

One more real world thing to think about are horses in full barding. It was developed in the Persian empire, so no stranger to hot climates, and didn't seem to give horses heatstroke in spite of their hair.

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Tachenon.5270]

16 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Not a whole lot? I mean, you've already got that insulated space, what difference is the fur making? Assuming a horse-hair or cotton stuffed gambeson under the armor on a human, and I don't see Charr fur being much different.

Assuming Charr function like real world animals, their fur also moves according to their body's needs, lying flat when less insulation is required, or bristling up when more is needed.

This reminds me of the question I get periodically, "does your beard make you hot in the summer?" In fact, no.

And, of course, there is how far you want to take reality in a fantasy. Medieval knights, outside of tournaments, rarely fought each other. Theirs was a privileged station sitting on the back of a horse mowing down each other's unarmored, poorly armed peasants. Like real war throughout history, the elites were very good at making sure a lot of the plebs died while they remained relatively risk free.

Full plate armor wasn't used to jump and dodge around in the kind of athletic fantasy combat we have in GW2, or for marching long distances. You traveled to the area of a battle, suited up, slaughtered a bunch of serfs, then retired back to your pavilion.

One more real world thing to think about are horses in full barding. It was developed in the Persian empire, so no stranger to hot climates, and didn't seem to give horses heatstroke in spite of their hair.

 

 

You're right, a beard won't make you hotter in the summer -- by itself. But wear a scarf or a ski mask or a motorcycle helmet over it and see what happens.  In regard to the possibility of a charr's fur moving according to the body's needs, sounds reasonable, but!  It can't move, not freely anyway, when there's armor or clothing on it -- unless, as I've previously stated, the armor is somehow designed to work with the fur and not in spite of it.

 

Speaking of reality in a fantasy setting, in Tyria we have people, charr and otherwise, running around in armor that's on fire, and gliding in it, and swimming in it, so... heh, yeah. As I said earlier, that ship has sailed. But! No one has as of yet convinced me that fur + armor = no worries!

 

As for horses overheating, no armor is needed for that to happen if a careless rider is involved.

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

 

 

As for horses overheating, no armor is needed for that to happen if a careless rider is involved.

Absolutely, but full armor doesn't seem to guarantee it either.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

We do have some. We could have more.

 

My elly twins in summer outfits.
https://i.imgur.com/pfa0m77.png

[Burial.1958]

Honestly such armors looks creepy on a dude. 

[anninke.7469]

6 hours ago, Grebcol.5984 said:

Honestly such armors looks creepy on a dude. 

Maybe, for some people. For others, not so much/ not at all. Just as well as spiders, other insects, reptiles, oddly shaped humanoids and a ton of other stuff.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

16 hours ago, Faccina.5091 said:

you mean that the skins are linked to the weight in some weird way ?

i guess l2j code is written ten bilion times better than gw2 code then 🤨

I wouldn't know regarding this l2j thing, but I don't think it has much to do with coding.  Others might be able to explain this better but as I understand it Anet designed the three (four if you include outfits) to each attach the the player model differently; a pair of heavy gloves don't connect to the hands the same way a medium or light pair will and will not connect to a medium or light torso armor properly.

[Doggie.3184]

Cuz this game doesn't care about gender equality and favors females characters in all aspects.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Doggie.3184

[TheLadyOfTheRings.9148]

On 11/15/2021 at 1:13 PM, ardhikaizecson.3697 said:

for company such as anet who loves diversity, arent male not allowed to have the same revealing clothing piece? for example almost every light armor looks normal on male but the female one almost looks naked, when I play female character im struggling to dress her the way i think the scholarly mage should look like i dont want to play as swamp witch most of the time who only cover their private part. also the raven legging comes to mind

 

And I hope that they will released new armor/outfit with the same aesthetic as astral scholar outfit and queendale academy because those looks good for both genders

The answer is simple: because society is still sexist and sexualizes female bodies. 

[Hashberry.4510]

2 hours ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

The answer is simple: because society is still sexist and sexualizes female bodies.

And Cosby is still a free man.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

On 11/15/2021 at 5:19 PM, Jin.8501 said:

What is sexy on female might not be on male and vice versa 

 The Saints Row series has proven this to be false. You a cocktail dress with high heels, earrings and bangles looks just as good on a  hairy, bulky, muscular, male character, than on a hairless, muscular, voluptuous female character.

Not everyone may enjoy either look, but they objectively look just as good.

Nevertheless, the fact is that gendered clothing is démodé. 

It's better to make all looks available to everyone, and let them choose what they like.

[Substance E.4852]

11 hours ago, TheLadyOfTheRings.9148 said:

The answer is simple: because society is still sexist and sexualizes female bodies. 

Human bodies are sexual by nature and the exact reason women will wear low cut tops and skin tight leggings when a baggy track suit would be just as comfortable and have more pockets

[Tukaram.8256]

Because it is a video game.  At this point... it is tradition.  Early D&D style games were coded by guys that grew up looking at Frank Frazetta posters, and reading Heavy Metal magazine.  That is where we started - that is where we stayed. 😎

[draxynnic.3719]

On 11/18/2021 at 3:39 AM, Gibson.4036 said:

Yes, the bulk of armor is weirdly separated between male and female. It's not just how much skin is shown, there are plenty of sets you wouldn't even know were suposed to be the same armor because the male version is so vastly different than the female.

This is the thing that annoys me. I've had a few cases of looking at a set and thinking "yeah, that's a decent set for my mesmer, I wonder what the female version looks like..." - and the answer turns out to be "lingerie". When there's a little bit of extra skin showing... fine. But then you get things like Masquerade.

 

Balancing those out would create more choice. Sure, it's likely that the skimpy female sets will be chosen more often than the skimpy male sets - but at least there'd be the same range of choices for each character sex. It's probably too much effort to go back and change all the existing sets, but at least the new ones going forward should try to avoid having such massive differences.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

47 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

This is the thing that annoys me. I've had a few cases of looking at a set and thinking "yeah, that's a decent set for my mesmer, I wonder what the female version looks like..." - and the answer turns out to be "lingerie". When there's a little bit of extra skin showing... fine. But then you get things like Masquerade.

 

Balancing those out would create more choice. Sure, it's likely that the skimpy female sets will be chosen more often than the skimpy male sets - but at least there'd be the same range of choices for each character sex. It's probably too much effort to go back and change all the existing sets, but at least the new ones going forward should try to avoid having such massive differences.

There's more than just the time and work that'd be required to change old armors, doing so would also screw over anyone that like any of those armors as they are.

[Doctor Hide.6345]

12 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

There's more than just the time and work that'd be required to change old armors, doing so would also screw over anyone that like any of those armors as they are.

 

Who says the old design is going away? You know they could give you the option to pick and choose which design you want to wear.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

44 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

 

Who says the old design is going away? You know they could give you the option to pick and choose which design you want to wear.

You're right, they aren't going away since Anets not going to go back and waste time altering old armors for what is probably a minority opinion.

[Zacchary.6183]

I am tired of seeing skimpy, winged females characters covered in glowies (and wings in general). I absolutely don't want to see the same on a dude.