The Rapidfire One Wolf Pack Easymode Nonsense Is So Broken

[Sleepwalker.1398]

2 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Nice to leave out weaver, and no idea why you crossed out scourge lol 

I was referring to you when you said ele's have barrier. (Meaning all ele?)

i only just recently started trying ele and can see no barrier on ele or tempest except weaver.

Scourge has barrier and core necro has barrier with Blood Bank.

[Voltekka.2375]

3 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Nice to leave out weaver, and no idea why you crossed out scourge lol 

We all know that scourge is the master of roaming, with its huge mobility, gapclosers, you name it.

Apart from barrier, scourge is a sitting duck. Literally. If you have issues against scourge as a ranged soulbeast...

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

6 hours ago, Shroud.2307 said:

The problem isn't that Soulbeast does a lot of damage, because a damage dealer is the identity of Soulbeast. Each Elite spec offers a different role, we could compare this to Warrior and Berserker as an example. Berserker gives up defenses to deal higher damage- a damage dealer is the identity of that Elite spec.

The issue with Soulbeast is that it is both a damage dealer and a bruiser. The defenses are what need to be nerfed. 

Smoke Assault should not have a range of 750 with 0 cast time. Dolyak Stance should not grant immunity to all CC (hard and soft) on top of flat damage reduction. Eternal Bond should not grant health. Second Skin should not reduce Condition damage. Etc.

Soulbeast shouldn't be able to do this kind of damage while still being hard to kill, it has both better damage and defenses than core or Druid. This should be the spec that's the first thing you want to kill, and that's easy to kill in a team fight, but can cause a lot of destruction if you let it live, like Reaper or Berserker. Not one that you have to ignore because it's difficult to kill AND it can be extremely dangerous to ignore.

People complain about it because it's low risk/high reward. If you're conscious of your surroundings it isn't hard to stay out of harms way when you have such high mobility, defensive options, and don't even need to be close to your target(s) to be bursting them. 

Personally, I don't think Soulbeast is a huge issue, but that doesn't mean I think it's okay either. If ANet wants to ignore it, what ever, but anyone defending it is out of their minds.

Also, here. Have a quick montage of a good glass Soulbeast memeing people and tell me more about how easy it is to kill.

 

 

Completely agree that the problem is sustain and not damage output.

 

I however do not agree with other things you've said.

 

If you play spvp you'd know that Soulbeast is a middle tier class no matter what build you're running. In wvw it's a problem because they never nerfed certain things that are still granting Soulbeast way too much sustain and this problem becomes exasperated with pve gear & food options.

 

It's probably a good idea if arenanet starts by skill splitting everything in wvw exactly the way it is split in pvp.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Omg haha, man gw2 players legit whine about anything that challenges them, now OWP is broken? Seriously u players need to quit helping anet ruin all the classes. If its effective vs someone = broken- gw2 players.

Then they complain the classes are less fun to use than they were in the days past haha.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[derlistigeuhu.1658]

On 6/13/2021 at 2:26 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

This is a common misconception.

 

They aren't pressing 1 key bro, they are burning their entire kit outside of the heal utility to deal that damage.

 

Dodge roll and then get aggressive. They got nothing left on a glass cannon build after they whiff a full burst for about 30s - 60s.

That's funny, because you cannot dodge the whole damage and end up dead still.

[felix.2386]

On 6/13/2021 at 9:38 AM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

This is true if you're getting caught by the Soulbeast on a non-roam build or a bad roam build.

 

This is not true at all if you are meeting a Sic Em One Wolf Pack high damage spec 1v1 while playing on an actual roaming build that is good.

 

IE: A good Mirage can ride on top of the DPS Soulbeast, Soulbeast cannot get away from it, Mirage should win the match up every time unless he seriously fumbles. Plenty of other builds designed correctly for roaming can do this.

 

I think a misunderstanding going on here is that people seem to believe that high pressure glass cannons have similar sustain to soulbeast dolyak tanks and that soulbeast dolyak tanks have similar damage to high pressure glass cannons. This just isn't true, even in the case of hybrid setups.

 

OP was discussing high pressure Sic Em One Wolf Pack builds. If you're being gunned down at 1500 range by 50/50 dps/sustain hybrids I dunno what to tell you other than you are doing something very wrong.

this sounds like it's not me who dont play ranger, it's you who don't play mesmer.

what build exactly of mesmer you can't out run with ranger?

 

also you can not simply justify balance with one class.

then i can justify prot holo with corrupt necro/spellbreaker.

not to mention the fact that PB mirage is cheese, you can't justify cheese with cheese.

i literally base my opinion of balance by playing 9 classes in plat level and have an extensive amount of play time on each of them.

 

ranger is literally one of the easiest roaming build in wvw with plenty of tool to engage and disengage next to thief and but can also solo camp.

which is why there's so many of them in wvw for how forgiving it is as a dps build compared to other dps build.

Edited June 14, 2021 by felix.2386

[felix.2386]

4 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Completely agree that the problem is sustain and not damage output.

 

I however do not agree with other things you've said.

 

If you play spvp you'd know that Soulbeast is a middle tier class no matter what build you're running. In wvw it's a problem because they never nerfed certain things that are still granting Soulbeast way too much sustain and this problem becomes exasperated with pve gear & food options.

 

It's probably a good idea if arenanet starts by skill splitting everything in wvw exactly the way it is split in pvp.

SB is middle tier class in pvp, only because thief/shiro damage is instant, which is better for faster snowball and take down as roamer and pvp has plenty of LoS and is objective based.

has nothing to do with class' fight performance.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

6 hours ago, Voltekka.2375 said:

We all know that scourge is the master of roaming, with its huge mobility, gapclosers, you name it.

Apart from barrier, scourge is a sitting duck. Literally. If you have issues against scourge as a ranged soulbeast...

 

The point was access to barrier and other damage mitigation skills making this topic a pretty non-issue for any competent player, not scourges roaming prowess lol.  

[Psycoprophet.8107]

6 hours ago, derlistigeuhu.1658 said:

That's funny, because you cannot dodge the whole damage and end up dead still.

Umm so I'm guessing ur new. If u dodge while being hit with rapid u basically avoid 3/4 of the damage so no u are not dead, even if ur glass unless ur already low hp. Over exaggerated statements provide little to no useful info. No decent player with a dodge, any defensive cd's on utilities or skills with evade frames dies to rapid fire unless ur new to the game, dont know ur class and or just bad at the game mechanically. These players should not be used as a premise for nerfs. Games trash enough these days.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Svarty.8019]

On 6/13/2021 at 1:36 PM, lodjur.1284 said:

I mean the problem is not only really the damage (tho burst like that overall is kinda unhealthy) but more so how safe it is,

Sounds an awful lot like invisible thieves or mesmers you can't target or warriors you can't kill ... or ... any other class.

 

Welcome to GW2. Drive careful and such.

[schloumou.3982]

8 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's probably a good idea if arenanet starts by skill splitting everything in wvw exactly the way it is split in pvp.

 

I made that sugestion a few times here, but sadly the majority of the WvW population at this point either thinks balance means all players have access to the same tools or have rather no balance than sPvP balance. Actually imho most players who are interested in competitive content have realised, they will not get it in this game and left over the years. Which makes the infamous statement "if you are into world vs world, you are typically really into PvE." by Mike O'Brien, a self fulfilling prophecy.

Edited June 14, 2021 by schloumou.3982

[kash.9213]

1 hour ago, schloumou.3982 said:

 

I made that sugestion a few times here, but sadly the majority of the WvW population at this point either thinks balance means all players have access to the same tools or have rather no balance than sPvP balance. Actually imho most players who are interested in competitive content have realised, they will not get it in this game and left over the years. Which makes the infamous statement "if you are into world vs world, you are typically really into PvE." by Mike O'Brien, a self fulfilling prophecy.

GW2 combat is still competitive and likely far better than the games your "most players" supposedly ran off to. A problem we have is that Anet seems to think players like competitive modes but don't like to actually fight. Rotating points is pretty much what WvW boils down to as well, but any time someone mentions any sort of open world pvp aspects or engaging mechanics to get people moving and bumping into each other, people in this forum will call them pve gimmicks but continue to cry about everyone avoiding fights. 

 

People who claim to want a "competitive" game often aren't concerned with balance, they just want to know there's a kit option that's a little broken but also in their wheelhouse and they'll play the kitten out of that game when they find it. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by kash.9213

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Umm so I'm guessing ur new. If u dodge while being hit with rapid u basically avoid 3/4 of the damage so no u are not dead, even if ur glass unless ur already low hp. Over exaggerated statements provide little to no useful info. No decent player with a dodge, any defensive cd's on utilities or skills with evade frames dies to rapid fire unless ur new to the game, dont know ur class and or just bad at the game mechanically. These players should not be used as a premise for nerfs. Games trash enough these days.

Unless you have 11k hp then 1/4 of the combo damage will kill you. One hit alone will take 4-6k off of 2600 defense targets.

[solemn.9608]

Careful that no one here is confusing a competent soulbeast player running a meta build with a casual player who tried it once/twice and couldn't get the hang of it because it was difficult. Yeah, some of them you can "just dodge" the burst and then go in for a CC ... but in the right hands, there is little you can do vs it when they tank like a warrior/guardian whilst running nearly full zerk. Maul, rapidfire and worldly impact should be rebalanced somehow.

 

It's just too easy to burst people down on ranger, and everyone who plays WvW knows it. Like there isn't any question in it. If you disagree then you don't play WvW >__>

[ArchonWing.9480]

To be real here it's probably a blessing that they're running longbow.

 

Many of the very dangerous slbs out there don't even use bow.

 

I wonder how many people are running gank/tanky/mobility builds and are just upset they got caught by a pew pew.

Edited June 15, 2021 by ArchonWing.9480

[Justine.6351]

LoL people defending sic em sniper tower ranger and saying "out skilled".

[Dralor.3701]

Are people really defending it though or just saying you’re bad if you can’t soak/dodge it? Issue to me sounds like people who are probably running glass builds with no defensive cds or awareness. 

 

The tanky melee SB might be a problem but if you’re having trouble with a full zerker longbow you’re probably getting blown up by all sorts of other 1 combo builds as well.

[derlistigeuhu.1658]

12 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Umm so I'm guessing ur new. If u dodge while being hit with rapid u basically avoid 3/4 of the damage so no u are not dead, even if ur glass unless ur already low hp. Over exaggerated statements provide little to no useful info. No decent player with a dodge, any defensive cd's on utilities or skills with evade frames dies to rapid fire unless ur new to the game, dont know ur class and or just bad at the game mechanically. These players should not be used as a premise for nerfs. Games trash enough these days.

 

It seems it's you that is new to the game or you don't know how rapid fire works or never met a good soulbeast player.
Chances are you play on NA in that case. I'm really sorry.

[derlistigeuhu.1658]

3 hours ago, Dralor.3701 said:

Are people really defending it though or just saying you’re bad if you can’t soak/dodge it? Issue to me sounds like people who are probably running glass builds with no defensive cds or awareness. 

 

The tanky melee SB might be a problem but if you’re having trouble with a full zerker longbow you’re probably getting blown up by all sorts of other 1 combo builds as well.

 

You mean like all those other high range kite classes that burst through your toughness? What kind of tanky or soak build do you think counters SB long bow burst right now?
The only thing that does is: No line of sight.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

8 hours ago, Justine.6351 said:

LoL people defending sic em sniper tower ranger and saying "out skilled".

Yeah I agree being a wall ranger is 0 skill but dying to a wall ranger means........ya nuff said.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 6/15/2021 at 3:21 AM, derlistigeuhu.1658 said:

 

You mean like all those other high range kite classes that burst through your toughness? What kind of tanky or soak build do you think counters SB long bow burst right now?
The only thing that does is: No line of sight.

 

How are you going to diss an entire continent then post nonsense like this? Think you really just need to get good at the game lol  

[anduriell.6280]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:19 PM, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Completely agree that the problem is sustain and not damage output.

 

I however do not agree with other things you've said.

 

If you play spvp you'd know that Soulbeast is a middle tier class no matter what build you're running. In wvw it's a problem because they never nerfed certain things that are still granting Soulbeast way too much sustain and this problem becomes exasperated with pve gear & food options.

 

It's probably a good idea if arenanet starts by skill splitting everything in wvw exactly the way it is split in pvp.

Totally agree here: 

WvW should have the same balance as sPvP,  for every class and every skill. It is the only way that gamemode can be balanced. 

 

Anet has issue the counterargument "but spvp balance does not scale in wvw"  and that is correct but only if a few set of skills take the spvp balance.

 

Also skill balancing for PvE should not be a thing in this game. PvE mobs will not complain if an effect is broken.  But Anet can be sure player will complain as soon as that broken skill or interaction is put into the game. 

 

So in this game at least Skill Balance and mechanical design should be on the PvP balance team, while skill art and animations should be on the PvE side.  The PvE team should not have the last word related to skill mechanics in a pvp game. 

 

The rest of game will fall into place once the balance is properly done and it will feel good. 

 

[Aeolus.3615]

21 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Yeah I agree being a wall ranger is 0 skill but dying to a wall ranger means........ya nuff said.

 

It requires much more skill to run on open field while there 10 snipers pointed at you :P 

 

10 solo sniper vs 1 on open field still count as a duel :P

 

 

I think players should point what is broken in that skill and how/what build they are runing, and what is needed on the ranger side to achieve such kill burst at that range.

 

note: i know game most time borks up animation and all what players will notice is the direct hits animation and damage from range skills,  game wont even render the arrows just the direct damage on cast with  hit just the hit animation sometimes with a small delay as in 1st damage then animation.

Edited June 16, 2021 by Aeolus.3615

[TheGrimm.5624]

On 6/13/2021 at 9:35 AM, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

 While I knew this would instantly devolve into a  "use this to counter/ learn to play", very clearly.....virtually nothing of what  Ive read has anythign to do with RapidFire/One Wolf Pack being unbalanced.  What does anythign that isnt Rapidfire/One Wolf Pack have to do with Longbow/Rapidfire/OneWolf pack?

   This isnt a post about how to counter anythign or learning to play.

It's about Ranger Longbow being way too easy to play.

 

But that is the issue. If you know your build is weak against a build, spec for it or roll one so you can figure out how to counter it. If this was an all powerful build would you not think that zergs would be requesting them in map chat? Have you seen that happen? When you do then you know if might be an issue. As of yet, still not seeing Comms calling out, need more rangers in squad. Rangers are long range and strong roamers. That said they are also counterable by a larger number of builds and classes. The best way to figure to counter a build is build one and play it and then you can better predict their moves and how to counter that build while on other characters or least ID which ones will will fair worse and have a plan ready for it. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by TheGrimm.5624

[Dralor.3701]

On 6/15/2021 at 12:21 AM, derlistigeuhu.1658 said:

 

You mean like all those other high range kite classes that burst through your toughness? What kind of tanky or soak build do you think counters SB long bow burst right now?
The only thing that does is: No line of sight.

Where to even begin? It’s hard to answer some of these questions when to me (and I’m sure others) this feels like such a non-issue.

 

At the moment I play scrapper, daredevil, spell breaker and scourge. None of my builds have any issue with soul beast.

At worst my necro might have trouble catching up to one if they really want to kite my but I’m never getting downed by one. Just feels the same to me as any class who has high mobility if they want to get away from me as a necro I don’t bother chasing...