Virtuoso Feedback Thread [Merged]

[AquaBR.9250]

I don't know about benchmarks, but in open world PvE i think the damage is too much, everything is just so easy to kill and im not even trying, i didn't even made a build!

[Levetty.1279]

8 minutes ago, Borked.6824 said:

I love watching you mesmer mains squirm.  I honestly hope they don't change a thing further just to see if pinkbois can spontaneously combust.  Like a pinata that explodes into a thousand "im petty" flags.

 

7 minutes ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

I don't know about benchmarks, but in open world PvE i think the damage is too much, everything is just so easy to kill and im not even trying, i didn't even made a build!

 

This is what Anet actually believes. 

[Tseison.4659]

BETA 4 FEEDBACK🔮

So after doing my fair share of testing, getting my hands on the Virtuoso again didn’t feel like anything new. I’ll mostly be talking in reference to WvW. So in terms of damage, it seems “okay”, not as bursty as core.

• The extra pip of blades per interval is nice and I always felt like I had blades available, but again, since F1 seems to be the only bladesong I used, I felt like F2 & F3 were an after thought and never once used them. It was only F1 & F4. So I definitely feel F2+F3 bladesongs can be changed into something else, I wouldn't mind F3 being a stun if a lot of people are requesting that. If other Virtuoso didn't take the illusion traitline for the extra F1 ammo, I highly recommend it because you'll be slinging F1 bladesongs every few seconds. But like I said, you'll likely forget about F2&F3 and will probably agree that those two should be changed into either something that gives mobility or something defensive or perhaps another CC.
• F4, yeah sorry but that needs to swap places with Blade Renewal. Block isn’t as great when compared to distortion and does it a disservice having it as a utility. 
• Additionally, the spec really needs condition cleanses and mobility skills. If we’re to rely on bringing the usual utilities with us, the only useful/must have skill out of the entire virtuoso kit we’d be taking is Blade Renewal. However, with that said, I do believe with the addition of the passive stocking of blades, I no longer brought Blade Renewal on my skill bar because the blade generation and uptime made BR pretty useless especially if it's only for a 3s distortion on a 60second cooldown. This is why again, BR and Bladeturn Requiem need to swap places and if ANET wants, they can turn Bladeturn Requiem into a utility skill with the same short cooldown.
• The condition traits need to be removed, nothing more to disscuss about that, it has absolutely no place with the Virtuoso and would rather those traits be freed up for something else.
• The damage is noticeably low in PvE just to add my two cents so I'm not sure where others are saying things are "dying too fast."
• All the utilities, including Blade Renewal due to the new blade generation traits, are all pretty obsolete to me and I'm back using the same core skills. Additionally due to the reduced damage and how similar and contradicting some of the utilities are, I do think they don't have a place in any game mode and need to be reevaluated again. Again, it's not up for discussion, Thousand Cuts, Sword of Decimation and Rain of Swords are LITERALLY the same. Thousand Cuts is just Rain of Swords horizontally and both Rain of Swords and Sword of Decimation can easily be combined together further enhancing the skill. Psychic Force could have easily been more flattering if it was like the Catalyst Windstorm skill, giving off a telekinetic push sort of vibe. Then lastly, Twin Blade Restoration should scrap the attack portion and instead heal you, cleanse a condition which gives you a blade and then give whatever boons.
• Reduce Bladesong cast time.
• The Sharper Images & Jagged Mind traits are overlapping and should be combined or the Sharper Images tooltip should state that it affects Blade attacks as well.

The Virtuoso or better yet, this line of elites don’t seem ready for launch and as a Beta 4 with supposed changes, the Virtuoso still feels the same with only bug fixes and once again, no feedback was taken into account.

Obviously the final product of the Virtuoso will be up in the air come launch and I would like to do some more “testing” these next few days, but it literally feels/plays the same so I personally see no point.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Tseison.4659
Added bulleted list.

[Artyport.2084]

Virtuoso is a cool spec 

 

but i agree with everyone that the condi line needs to be removed.

not updated removed.

 

change the f2 to be a movement skill.

id love to see a cool skill where you condense the blades and ride on them to get away.

 

f3 needs to stun

 

dagger is meh.

 

 

[Senqu.8054]

You had the time. You had the feedback. And you did nothing. Congrats ANet.

[AquaBR.9250]

I feel like i have to give my positive feedback too since people only talk about what they don't like and you end up changing things i like:

-So, dagger is so much fun (but the damage is too much i guess)

-I love how i can use both F1 and F2 for both power and condi builds and it will still do a decent damage

-The trade off of sustain for damage is cool and really makes me having to really build something instead of just damage

-I think you fixed the bladesong animation sliding while walking because of no aftercast, thank you

 

 

I don't know about benchmarks, but in open world PvE i think the damage is too much, everything is just so easy to kill and im not even trying, i didn't even made a build!

[Jables.4659]

I want to give Arenanet props for the new Cry of Frustration.  The skill is really fun to use and feels very impactful on hybrid setups with Illusions (10 confusion 5 torment).  It definitely helps to make up for the lack of clone dps and it behaves in a way that still allows you to setup bursts. 

I don't understand what the intention was with dagger.  The weapon deals incredibly low damage in competitive modes, has no mobility, no active defense, no cc, and every ability is a projectile.  It just seems like there is no way to properly use the weapon.

The condition traits in Virtuoso need serious work or replacement.  The bleeds on blade crit are too short to be impactful for dps;  they really only feel valuable for the purposes of clone generation with Bloodsong.  The problem is that Bloodsong doesn't provide enough blade gen without dagger, but scepter is far more valuable which renders Bloodsong obsolete.  

Please consider a full rework on dagger.  I love the idea of a dagger wielding Mesmer, but the current iteration feels significantly worse than every other weapon. 

The non-instant cast shatters and too many projectiles is still an issue, but I don't want to beat a decomposed horse too badly. 

[LadyApplejacks.7416]

I pretty much only play solo PvE and enjoy simple things so I'm not sure how valuable my feedback is but kitten this is awesome. Mesmer was already my fave class but dang this elite spec makes it even better. 

First of all the art...10/10. The colors and animations are so beautiful and smooth.

Second of all, it makes soloing challenging areas much less frustrating and more enjoyable. Although I really like being able to rip through enemies because it makes exploring much less tedious, I feel it will inevitably lead to the skills getting nerfed for pvp/wvw balances. Which sucks for players like me who never play that way.  

 

Long story short, I really really love virtuoso and hope it is released more or less the way it is! 

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Flying Cutter

- Flurry trigger should be 2 hits. The damage simply lacking compare to GS1.

 

Just to see if they addressed any of my feedback.

 

Flying Cutter is really lacking in damage. You need to stack 3 cuts before the cutter burst happens on your 4th attack. This should trigger on the 3rd attack. Either reduce the stack to 2 or increase the damage of the cutter burst.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Bladecall

- Projectile needs to be faster and homing back to the Mesmer instead of following a straight path.

 

There is a slight homing now with this skill. Albeit it's still slow, but at least it's homing to my character now.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Unstable Bladestorm

- Effect is not very clear. How damage does it deal to targets inside the bladestorm? How often do they get hit? After testing, "damages foes it passes through" doesn't seem to happen. Damage only applies when the blades shoots out.

 

You need to make this one clear.

- How long does the bladestorm lasts? Duration is not listed.

- How often does the target inside the storm takes damage? The only one that's listed is how often the blade shoots out.

- "Blades Launched: 3" Does it shoot 3 blades at a time or one blade at a time, 3 blades in total? We can't really say if this is functioning correctly if the tooltip has incomplete information.

 

If it's not intended to deal damage to targets it passes through, just remove that phrase from the tooltip for clarity.

"Launch a slow-moving telekinetic storm of daggers that fire blades at nearby targets."

 

Simple, one sentence, no need to make changes to the mechanic, if this is the intention, which the mechanic shows seems to be case.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Blade Renewal

- CD is too long

- Should be a stun break

 

No change. Just delete this skill if you're not going to improve it. With the new auto-stock every 10s, this skill is DOA.

 

The fact that I have to channel for 3s means I'm not doing damage for 3s -- just for 5 daggers? The drop on DPS in that 3s window makes this even more useless.

 

This should be the stunbreak with 30s CD which works well with the 3s channel. Otherwise, just delete it.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Psychic Force

- Should not be a stun break

- Reduce CD if stun break is removed

 

No change. This shouldn't be a stunbreak. It has too much going on in it already. This should be just a pushback utility with lower CD.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Jagged Mind

- has a 100% chance to apply bleed on crit...why not just say it applies bleed on crit straight up?

- Why GS is considered as Blade, but Sword isn't? Blurred Frenzy and Counter Blade should both be the type Blade

 

No change. I still don't understand why sword is not a type blade when Sword #3 skill is called "Blade Leap".

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Duelist Reversal and Psychic Riposte

- should trigger on "block and evade", instead of "block and dodge", because it triggers on evade (e.i. Blurred Frenzy)

 

No change. You need to fix the tooltip on this. It also triggers on evade which is not necessarily from dodging.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Infinite Forge

- it's rather useless

- It's better if it restocks 1-3 Blades whenever you use Bladesong.

 

The change to this trait seems to speed up the out of combat blade stock changing the 10s interval to 3s when in combat. Not good enough.

- Psychic Riposte gives me 3 blades every 3s -- not one.

- Bloodsong gives tons of blades on high-crit builds, meaning I can get blades in less than 3s.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Bloodsong

- this trait necessitate that you also take Jagged Mind which means there's no other way to build around this GM trait -- in other words, it's useless without Jagged Mind

- If the Dagger skills applies Bleeding, then this trait makes sense. Otherwise it's a waste of GM slot.

 

No change. This is one of those traits that pigeon hole builds. The requirement to take Jagged Mind and to use a blade type weapon is rather annoying. Compare to how flexible Mirage is, this GM trait is too stiff.

 

On 8/17/2021 at 8:00 PM, Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

Overall feel

- It's a fun E.Spec specially with Sword/Sword build.

- Dagger skills need work (see above)

 

With the passive blade stocking makes this E.Spec plays a lot smoother. However, the rigidity of the traits, especially Jagged Mind and Bloodsong limits the number of possible builds.

[Adah.8371]

2 things really annoying for me:

- The sound of the dagger attacks is to loud. It drives me crazy after 1 minute.

- Can we hide the blades when we're out of combat ?

Everything else is just pure fun !

Edited November 30, 2021 by Adah.8371

[Simonoly.4352]

I've been testing Virtuoso in WvW and it's honestly a bit of a struggle to get this thing going. A few pieces of feedback:

1)The restocking of blades outside of combat is nice but possibly a bit too slow - ah maybe I'll get used to it.

2) The unblockable effect of Pyschic Riposte is a real pain to utilise. I've been trying to use enemy AoE to trigger this or waiting to be attacked before considering my next bladesong with varying success but, in all honesty, this just isn't a fun way to play and feels a bit contradictory considering the rest of the specialisation's kit.

3) Dagger has no impact and feels incredibly wet to use. The damage on the auto-attack is minuscule and too reliant on the flurry; Bladecall is far too slow on the return and only of acceptable damage at point blank range; Unstable Bladestorm is okay but it passes through targets too quickly so the extent of its damage is never realised. I find it to be an unexciting and ineffective weapon.

4) Bladesongs are still really easy to avoid by simply side-stepping. I've come up against Virtuoso's who haven't been able to land a single Bladesong Harmony because I'm just wandering out of the attack - it's quite funny actually. Bladesongs really need to track better and possibly be much faster.

5) Thousand Cuts just doesn't hit things. I'm trying so hard with this kitten thing because the visual on the blades are gorgeous but the radius is so small and the damage spread out over such a long period now that it just doesn't really work. Maybe increase the radius at least?

6) The projectiles on Twin Blade Restoration are so small and get lost in the visual clutter that I often have no idea if they're hitting. Perhaps make the blades a bit more noticeable?

7) This is more of a general point, but I still think Virtuoso needs either more ways to delay melee attackers or more survivability. This could be cripple or an evade or some mobility added to dagger or a few things added to traits for us to pick from. As it stands, getting into melee range as a Virtuoso is suicide in WvW, yet there are traits and skills that want us to close the gap on our targets. We have 1200 range, but we're more effective at <600 range. We don't have any real sustain yet our traits want us to get hit. Oh Anet I'm so confused 😝

Edited November 30, 2021 by Simonoly.4352

[Mungo Zen.9364]

PvE Perspective:

This eSpec offers nothing engaging for me.  The play style is boring (count to 5 and dump) and there are no interesting choices to make in combat.  The traits are a joke, the GM do not offer interesting game play choices like Chrono and Mirage offer, and the Condi v Power trait lines seem poorly thought out and designed.

And the worst part?  Padding the dmg numbers for the Beta which will obviously be nerfed.  Like, how can you avoid a lot of legit complaints about how the eSpec works?  Make it slightly overpowered so everyone thinks it is fine.

I know that some players will really enjoy this, and I think that is fine.  For a player who enjoyed the complexity of Chrono and Mesmer in general, this new eSpec is not inspiring me to play it whatsoever.  I don't want to say it is too easy but, it is definitely boring in it's simplicity.

[Mik.3401]

I played a lot of PvP today using virtuoso and basically it is the same to me. Deficit of blades has never been a problem in the first place, so the spec plays the same as it was 3 months ago.

The damage buff from minor trait is kind of irrelevant - I don’t think it changes things much.

So I’m not even sure what do we need to report here. Condi build has pretty nice burst on F2 and apart from that meh, the power one is very clunky - core power is definitely better.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Mik.3401

[Adah.8371]

Is a condi build still good in PVE in you opinion?

[Mik.3401]

Someone is so engaged to giving negative reactions to people giving and objective feedback. Maybe arenanet filters by reactions😂 that would explain it

[mirage.8046]

Shatters having a cast time is a big turn-off.; thankfully, f3 and f4 no longer require targets.
Dagger feels so boring to use; it could use some evasion or hard CC. There's no utility to it whatsoever.
I find it hilarious how we're getting new toys that will be reflected right back at us. 
As for damage, it's alright on the power side (hit like 22k-23k on the golem); I have no comment on the condi side. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Rusty.1362

[Linnael.1069]

The sword skills should all be Blade skills. Seems like an oversight.

[Kanok.3027]

After playing Power Chrono for who knows how long now (not as long as some vets on here), I can safely say...I LOVE IT! It could use a bit more tweaking, but it's fantastic. It's like Power Chrono, but without the piano keys and without having to remember to use Continuum Split with an extremely tight rotation to get the damage "just right".

I made Incinerator JUST for the beta (and for Virt in general) and I was not disappointed. Thanks Anet! (mind you, I pretty much only play Mesmer in PvE content, so this is from that perspective)

[Levetty.1279]

2 hours ago, Adah.8371 said:

Is a condi build still good in PVE in you opinion?

If you swap to staff Mirage, yes.

[Levetty.1279]

4 minutes ago, Kanok.3027 said:

It's like Power Chrono, but without the piano keys and without having to remember to use Continuum Split with an extremely tight rotation to get the damage "just right".

And without the damage!

[The Specimen.8973]

After playtesting the Beta 4 Virtuoso for over 5 hours now, this the feedback I have up to now and I doubt it'll change over the course of the next few days.

(To make this feedback somewhat shorter I have tried to only include what and how skills/traits should be improved following Beta 4)

1. Condition Traitline:

The large majority of mesmers (and non-mesmers) on the forums agree that the Condition Traitline doesn't make sense for an eSpec that is clearly a power dps spec (Mirage was the Condi eSpec!) and should be replaced with some form of utility traitline:

• Personal Utility traitline, such as: increased mobility, sustain, stability, improved dagger/psionics. Traits that will help the Virtuoso fulfil being a ranged power dps with the ability to stay at long range.

• Group Utility traitline, such as: stability for allies (leaning into a Mind Palace concept that Psionics evoke), a unique buff for allies similar to Spotter on Rangers (Increased Ferocity???). This could lessen the sheer selfish dps nature of the spec that could make Virtuoso undesired in end game content.

2. Bladesongs:

(THESE ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT SUGGESTIONS I HAVE)

• Virtuoso should innately have unblockable projectiles when further than 600 range from their targets - Virtuoso would now be a far more viable ranged dps, while still retaining the ability to be effectively countered by enemies when they're within 600 range of the Virtuoso (and with how much mobility is on all of the classes, this shouldn't be absurdly difficult).

• Bladesongs need to be able to be fired when not facing your target - being locked into facing our enemy is restrictive and reduces our ability to effectively kite and keep our distance from enemies while still engaging in combat.

• Cast times should be ¼sec or ½sec

• Projectile speeds need to be significantly quicker

• Bladesong Harmony and Bladesong Sorrow should both have an identical CD of 5 seconds so that the Virtuoso is actually able to shatter more - more blade generation doesn't mean more shatters if they're all always on cooldown due to having the same CDs as the other mesmer specs.

• Bladesong Sorrow should be a ground target aoe power shatter (changed to ground target just like what you've done to elixirs for Harbinger), basically a smaller/weaker Rain of Swords - this makes the shatter unique for Virtuoso.

• Bladesong Dissonance should be a stun not a daze as it has the drawbacks of having a cast time and being a slow projectile (meaning more likely to be interrupted) unlike the instantaneous f3 of core mesmer. A hard stun could make up for those drawbacks.

• Bladeturn Requiem is so weak and is a complete downgrade compared to the Core F4, Distortion. This shouldn't be a shatter skill that expends blades, and should instead be compeletly replaced by Blade Renewal - this would give back the sustain of distortion, while also giving us the priority resource, Blades. A lot of mesmers on the forums have explicitly stated how Blade Renewal should be a fundamental class mechanic for the Virtuoso and therefore should really be the F4 (or a new F5 which would be very unique for mesmer!).

3. Dagger:

• Dagger 2 (Bladecall) is a close range shotgun skill that is contradictory to the ranged nature of Virtuoso, this should at the very least also be a disengage skill that allows Virtuoso's to create distance so that they can be a successful ranged dps. Personally, I'd love to see a 300-600 range teleport/dash backwards (similar to Phase Retreat on Staff) when you use Bladecall. Maybe even consider making Bladecall a 2 charge ammo skill.

• Dagger 2's damage is unreliable as to get full value you need to be essentially within the hitbox of your target so that all projectiles hit - this for a 1200 ranged dps is not ideal.

• Dagger 3 (Bladestorm) shouldn't be a projectile-shooting projectile (the whole Bladestorm gets swallowed and blocked by any form of projectile hate), but instead should be a ground target aoe that inflicts cripple/blindness - more control over the skill and helps Virtuoso's to keep their enemies at a distance.

• Offhand Dagger for even more utility and class identity was a missed opportunity for an eSpec that is a master of blades - especially since Mesmers are now the only class to not get a two-handed weapon (5 new skills) in any expansion.

4. Psionics:

Twin Blade Restoration:
• Needs to be able to be used no matter which direction you're facing - otherwise the ability cancels when you're not looking at your target which is terrible for a Heal skill.

• Needs to provide more healing and condition cleanse instead of the boons - Virtuoso has near to no condition cleanse on its kit (making us reliant on Core skills); so more cleanse, the better.

Blade Renewal:
• Should either be a new F5 class mechanic (Blade Renewal, genuinely, seems like it should be a part of the Virtuoso's class mechanics), or be the F4 instead of Bladeturn Requiem - again, a lot of mesmers are saying this!

New Psionic Utility if Blade Renewal becomes the new F4/F5:
• Could be a hard CC like the Float condition to lean into that telekinetic concept for Virtuoso (Called Telekinetic Grip)

• Could be a 2-part, flip skill dancing dash (dashes you up to 600 range in the direction you're moving) that cripples nearby enemies with psionic blades to provide mobility (Called Cutting Performance, flips to Encore Performance for second non-crippling dash)

Psychic Force:
• The patch notes said that the CD was being lowered to 40 seconds but I can confirm it has not (its still 45 secs), but even still I do believe it's too long for a stun-break, I'd suggest 35 seconds for the CD.

Rain of Swords:
• Should inflict cripple

Sword of Decimation:
• "Sword" implies one so I think the animation should be changed to one giant Blade falling - this would make it more distinguishable when compared to Rain of Swords.

• In all honesty, this skill could be removed and the CC added to Rain of Swords and I think most people would be happy with that change.

Thousand Cuts:
• The only way I can think of to fix this Elite is to make the projectiles lock on and track nearby targets because even NPC enemies just walk straight out of it like it was nothing. Projectile tracking would make Thousand Cuts actually usable in a PvP environment. If you did this, maybe remove the unblockable but up the damage back to what it was in Beta 1. While talking to Kroof and the others in her discord, a potential fix for Thousand Cuts could be the cooldown being reduced by ½ second for each blade you expend in a successful Bladesong shatter - this would add blade/shatter synergy as well as making Thousand Cuts more forgiving when enemies walk out of its damage area, as you will get the skill recharged quicker when you shatter.

• Otherwise, I'd completely replace Thousand Cuts with an elite skill such as "Bladedance" which would be similar to a kit where you'd get 5 new skills that are each a different dance move animation and each deal damage or give boons - Mesmers still haven't received a complete set of 5 new skills from an expansion compared to every other spec.

5. Traits:

(I've said what needs to be said on the Condi Traitline)

Personally, the theme for each traitline shouldn't have been:
- Top = Close Quarter Combat
- Middle = Power
- Bottom = Condi

It should be:
- Top = Close Quarter Combat
- Middle = Mid-Long Range Combat
- Bottom = Personal/Group Utility

• With the Unblockable Bladesongs  beyond 600 range change that I've talked about, I feel that the current top traitline that all synergise together via blocks/dodges could, successfully, be the traitline for those who like to be in close combat and want the extra defence and access to unblockable when within 600 range.

• (IMPORTANT) Mental Focus should DEFINITELY be changed to you gain 10% increased strike damage against enemies that are FURTHER than 600 range from you - make this the ranged dps spec that it's obviously supposed to be because forcing you into close range is so dejected from the clearly ranged concept of the Virtuoso, not to mention Virtuoso is so much more squishy without clones to draw fire for example..

• I like the new Deadly Blades a lot, really leans into the shatter focus of the spec.

• Phantasmal Blades feels very underwhelming especially since the damage is based upon the phantasm stats (instead of our personal stats) so in pvp/wvw it feels extra weak. Maybe this would be better as glyph turret (Similar visual to Thousand Cuts' glyph) that stays for 3-5 seconds and fires several blades at the target instead - this would provide a bit more oomph to a currently mediocre and undesirable trait, while also providing some great visual class identity.

[Sodeni.6041]

Passive blade regen feels good.

But Virtuoso still has it's core issues.

They should remove phantasms as well and let the mesmer do the phantasm skill themselves. Thus we would have some needed mobility with greatsword and defense with focus, etc. If they could give us offhand dagger as well with some mobility and condi cleanse that would be great. Fusing the 2 aoe utilities into one and give us another mobility option would also be good since those aoes are not worth separating.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Sodeni.6041

[Obliviscaris.6937]

Why the crap is Infinite Forge, a GM trait and not baseline? Once again we're having features that should be baseline, as grandmaster traits, or traits, period. If the spec isn't going to have clones (which is just horrible seeing as they're our primary form of defense and a portion of offense in condition/hybrid specs), this has to be baseline. It's a no-brainer.

Bleeding on crits – Jagged Mind – also needs to be baseline. Merge it isn't Psychic Blades. We have sets like viper/wizards amulet for a reason.

Why do they constantly do this to Mesmer specialisations? 

There are so many more things but those two things stuck out at me as common-sense changes.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obliviscaris.6937

[LadyKitty.6120]

Kitty now tested the Grieving Virtuoso which is kinda as effective as you can get as condi Virtuoso build. She managed to avoid the Fury-Expertise bug (in many occasions, you get 6k+ Expertise when you have Fury) somehow and thus got realistic numbers which are...underwhelming. About 23,5k.
The main issue Virtuoso has with Bleeding (that's supposed to be its main condi) is that unlike other mesmer builds, it doesn't have passive Bleed application through clones, just through Shatters and using Blade skills (Kitty assumes?) which are waaaaay slower at applying Bleeding.
Since Virtuoso focuses just on one condi, Grieving is kinda the natural choice. But. Aside from the aforementioned Bleed application issues, Virtuoso STILL doesn't get even close to capping the crit rate in normal power gears without investing in another 10%+ crit rate from gears (10% requires Fury, Spotter and Banner of Discipline). And obviously the situation is even worse for Grieving (read: condi) builds.
So, Kitty's really failing to see the point of trying to make Virtuoso a partly condi spec (though Kitty kinda understands you want to provide that option for those who buy EoD withou HoT+PoF) when blades replacing clones takes away the main source of bleeding.

Power DPS-wise Kitty's now doing 31,5k which is 2k down from previous Beta's 33,5k and thus lands Power Virtuoso among the other common metabuilds in her not-super-optimized gameplay (she generally does 30-32,5k).

Edited December 1, 2021 by LadyKitty.6120
Extending.

[zetherin.8372]

42 minutes ago, LadyKitty.6120 said:

Kitty now tested the Grieving Virtuoso which is kinda as effective as you can get as condi Virtuoso build. She managed to avoid the Fury-Expertise bug (in many occasions, you get 6k+ Expertise when you have Fury) somehow and thus got realistic numbers which are...underwhelming. About 23,5k.
The main issue Virtuoso has with Bleeding (that's supposed to be its main condi) is that unlike other mesmer builds, it doesn't have passive Bleed application through clones, just through Shatters and using Blade skills (Kitty assumes?) which are waaaaay slower at applying Bleeding.
Since Virtuoso focuses just on one condi, Grieving is kinda the natural choice. But. Aside from the aforementioned Bleed application issues, Virtuoso STILL doesn't get even close to capping the crit rate in normal power gears without investing in another 10%+ crit rate from gears (10% requires Fury, Spotter and Banner of Discipline). And obviously the situation is even worse for Grieving (read: condi) builds.
So, Kitty's really failing to see the point of trying to make Virtuoso a partly condi spec (though Kitty kinda understands you want to provide that option for those who buy EoD withou HoT+PoF) when blades replacing clones takes away the main source of bleeding.

Power DPS-wise Kitty's now doing 31,5k which is 2k down from previous Beta's 33,5k and thus lands Power Virtuoso among the other common metabuilds in her not-super-optimized gameplay (she generally does 30-32,5k).

Why are you referring to yourself in the 3rd person?  Also, the 6.3k expertise is awesome and should totally be a feature.  The blade generation is wicked when you have high crit and slightly longer bleed duration

 

Also, fighting chak has become a whole new level of hell with their ranged damage reflection.  Earth eles as well.

Edited December 1, 2021 by zetherin.8372