This has got to be the most underrated MMO ever...why?

[Norbe.7630]

I want to make a new video series like no other.

Since there are hundreds already of YouTube videos about "WoW player tries GW2"

 

I want to make "GW2 player tries WoW"

I shout there "For the WvW Alliance!"

 Also kill stealing vs kill helping comparison on both games to start the series I think

[Tren.5120]

On 9/24/2021 at 3:31 AM, Crono.4197 said:

Yes it is about doing dungeons, raids and getting gear, because other than that, don't don't have much to do in other MMOs because those are the base things in them. Why do people generally play MMOs? To create a character, level it up and get gear, be it from dungeons or raids.

People play MMORPGs to build and progress a character while playing socially with others.  That's why they're called Role Playing Games.  There has to be some vehicle for progression.  Quest Rewards, Dungeon Drops and Raid Drops are that - along with crafting.  These are all areas where GW2 is hilariously weak.  It doesn't have any means for people to play the same character over a 10-year span and not feel like it has been stagnant for 9.5 years.

The never-ending progression is exactly why people play MMORPGs - because it's like a sort of pseudo-life, a digital alter ego.  You have more experiences, in game, and your character grows from it.  If you choose to roleplay a scrub who just gets to max level and doesn't participate in anything else, that is your prerogative...

Gear is just part of that progression, which enables you to keep progressing and allows the player to feel an increase in power level over time.  The same way professionals expect a raise perks of seniority, etc. when they work a job for a decade.  You are displaying an ignorant and short-sighted manner of evaluating these things.

MMORPGs are progression oriented.  They always have been.  You are acting like that is a terrible thing, when it simply is the norm.  The norm does not need to change, other genres already cater to those niches.  GW2 is riding the fence, and this is a polarizing position to be in.  The issue with GW2 is that it's basically a Multi-Player Action RPG masquerading as an MMORPG.

The game is not underrated.  It's properly evaluated by actual MMORPG players.  Those who are fine with something that rides the fence are more than welcome to buy and play it/its expansions/etc.  No one will be embittered by that choice.

Didn't read the rest, doubt it is worth.  Put a TL;DR next time.

 

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Tren.5120

[Jables.4659]

On 6/1/2021 at 9:52 AM, Aodlop.1907 said:

- People interested in vertical progression may not find what they need in GW2, probably a big reason. Some folks reach level 80, get exotics, and have no idea what to do next so they just quit after a few days.

- People who prefer tab targeting combat to action combat stick to WoW. This can be a pretty big reason, because the way your character plays and feels is probably the #1 thing that will make you stick to any video game.

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head with these two. 

Despite being an avid player of the original Guild Wars and its campaigns/expansions (which had even less vertical progression), I hit 80 and geared up in full exotics  and had no idea what to do.  I had no goal and almost quit the game.  I think the big difference for me was the fact that the story (and everything else) in the original Guild Wars highly incentivized meeting new people and playing as a team.  I was able to naturally absorb information about the game through my peers which caused me to form new goals and experience all of the content the game had to offer.   Someone in a story mission has a cool axe made out of energy and that leads to me learning about the Fissure of Woe and the Underworld.  Someone else uses their /rank emote and that results in me spending a year of my playtime in Heroes Ascent pvp.  So much of a new player's experience in GW2 is playing through solo story missions and running around the open world where players see each-other without any meaningful interaction.  In GW2, my initial spark came from chatting with another player while waiting for the frozen maw event to start while I was leveling an alt.  that led to us duo roaming in WvW, running dungeons, joining a guild, and farming cof path 1 for a month straight while we worked on our first legendary weapons.  Player interaction is everything in an MMO and GW2 didn't do a great job at promoting it. 

As far as the combat system, I think a lot of people see that GW2 uses tab targeting and they write it off there and then without ever realizing just how advanced it actually is.  Someone might look at GW2 and ESO and choose to go with ESO because they see the "action-camera".  The ironic reality is that GW2 actually has action combat and ESO does not.  In GW2, if you fire a projectile, the enemy can strafe out of the way to cause a miss, actively dodge the projectile while its in flight, block the projectile by reacting to the initial shot being fired, ect.  When you attack via melee, the target can react to the weapon swing and actively dodge, block, or even step out of the attack's range with superspeed.  In ESO, whether the attack hits or not is decided the moment in which the attack was launched and the following animation is purely for show.  If you weren't doing something to negate the attack when it was ordered, you are going to be hit.  It's basically WoW combat that uses your camera angle to select a target instead of tab.

[Tiviana.2650]

On 9/25/2021 at 2:06 AM, Norbe.7630 said:

I want to make a new video series like no other.

Since there are hundreds already of YouTube videos about "WoW player tries GW2"

 

I want to make "GW2 player tries WoW"

I shout there "For the WvW Alliance!"

 Also kill stealing vs kill helping comparison on both games to start the series I think

It hasnt worked that way in a long time. And people do help in wow, its a stereotype that wow has the worst playerbase, more of a meme really. I actually think wow has a tighter community than GW2, yes there is trade chat, but map chat here can be just as vile. I have many a screenshot of how awful it can get

[Tiviana.2650]

6 hours ago, Jables.4659 said:

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head with these two. 

actually the problem isnt the vertical progression or lack of, its the game isnt very friendly to newer players unless you are a walking wiki. There is another thread on this topic and its a good point that most people are used to playing games that have a path give you information in game on what this is what that does where the next place to go ect. You really dont get that here you literally have to alt tab more than any game I have ever played to find out anything. So many hidden things, that you wont know about. Take for instance changing stats on ascended gear, I didnt know for a year that was even a thing. Because nothing says anything about it, its like that with most stuff.  

[Goettel.4389]

No gear threadmill, no popular IP to draw on, little marketing, a lot of systems without tutorial, ...

I love it ; - )

[Rasimir.6239]

1 hour ago, Tiviana.2650 said:

actually the problem isnt the vertical progression or lack of, its the game isnt very friendly to newer players unless you are a walking wiki. There is another thread on this topic and its a good point that most people are used to playing games that have a path give you information in game on what this is what that does where the next place to go ect. You really dont get that here you literally have to alt tab more than any game I have ever played to find out anything. So many hidden things, that you wont know about. Take for instance changing stats on ascended gear, I didnt know for a year that was even a thing. Because nothing says anything about it, its like that with most stuff.  

Maybe it's an age thing, but I really can't agree with this.

 

I "grew up" in a time when video games were brand new and the only outside information you could get was from printed magazines that shipped weeks after the games were released. Still games didn't have better explanations or tutorials back then. Instead we were just used to figuring out things ourselves.

 

GW2 does give you a lot of room to discover stuff for yourself, and I have found plenty of hints to figure things out. It takes time and (sometimes a lot of) trial&error, but that's what makes it fun for me, much more than games that tell me what to do all the way and just act as a shiny front for a loot simulator.

 

I do however get the impression that a lot of players these days are so used to getting every bit of information served on a silver platter that they have neither the patience nor the skill to figure things out on their own. One prominent example that comes to my mind is the Skyscale. I had a blast going through the collections, finding all the bits and pieces, and it still took me only a week, without any outside information. Same with story instances, I go in a try to figure out the mechanics, and it usually only takes a few tries to see what I have to do. Still there are plenty of threads again and again complaining that it is "impossible without wiki/youtube".

 

Is it really the game that fails at explaining, or is it the players expecting handholding where the game offers exploration instead?

[battledrone.8315]

On 6/1/2021 at 4:52 PM, Aodlop.1907 said:

List of reasons I can come up with:

- People interested in vertical progression may not find what they need in GW2, probably a big reason. Some folks reach level 80, get exotics, and have no idea what to do next so they just quit after a few days.

- People who prefer tab targeting combat to action combat stick to WoW. This can be a pretty big reason, because the way your character plays and feels is probably the #1 thing that will make you stick to any video game.

- Lack of support and love given to PvP. Limited game modes, and some game modes such as 2v2/3v3 arena aren't even a permanent feature, but rather a limited time thing for special seasons. Lack of proper battlegrounds too, like 10v10 or 15v15. Probably other issues as well but I'm not experience enough to give an enlightened opinion.

- Confusing PvE. Dungeons, fractals, strike missions - sometimes the content is dead or irrelevant, you have to know what is what and it's not really explained well. Lots of having to do your own research here. And since you can't join a dungeon by pressing 1 button, you may be discouraged and not bother.

vertical progression: 

-levels

-gear

AND elite specs. AND mounts.

this game actually has more vertical progression , than ANY other mmo , that i know of.

action combat isnt the issue either, i can play both

[hatozeni.5721]

All my friends that I show GW2 are ecstatic with the game. They say it's beautiful, etc... and wonder: How come I've never heard of it?
So I believe it's a marketing failure. It seems that the game being excellent is not enough.

[hellsqueen.3045]

On 6/2/2021 at 4:40 AM, Ardenwolfe.8590 said:

This surprises me too, but I suppose it shouldn’t. Guild Wars 2 is my longest-played MMO to date, yet for many years I didn’t play the game either and returned only months ago. If I had to guess? The lack of expansions and Living World is to blame. Miss any of the Living World Season 1 content, and you’re SOL.

 

And it’s still true.

 

Pure speculation but if I hadn’t experienced Season 1 and came here as a new player, I’d have zero idea who these people were when I finished the first story and Season 2 began.

 

To say it’s jarring is an understatement.

It is jarring, however I made it through just fine.
I joined just before HoT dropped and I didn't care that I was lost on the characters, I still found them funny and interesting characters that made me go seek out information on them to fill in the gaps.

If you enjoy something enough, you will go out of your way to seek the information you need. The WIKI and LWS1 movie on youtube filled in the gaps just fine.

I would still rather have access to the content in a better way than that but whatever.

Now that they are learning to put big battle content inside instances, it could be possible to bring back the content in a way that is playable in the future, they already let people access some of the old story instances and while it doesn't make 100% sense as it is, there are many strides toward making it accessible I see them doing.

[Bookah pls.9352]

I feel kinda sad that gw2 seems to have been a bit overlooked during the wow mass exodus, most of them either jumped to ff or that new world game.

They really don't know what they are missing, a good chunk of general complaints about wow are next to non existant here. 

 

Marketing has never been a strong point for gw2 but you'd have thought they would have pushed the boat out in this circumstance.

 

[Robban.1256]

On 6/1/2021 at 8:50 PM, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

GW2 was on display shelves in stores for about 1 year before it totally disappeared. But I can't tell you how many times I've seen ESO (Elder Scrolls Online) advertised on store shelves and having re-release after re-release. Just from the top of my head.. Imperial Edition, Gold Edition, Unlimited Edition. Then there's all the collectors editions, and then several editions for every expansion that got released.

 

Not to say ESO has more players than GW2, I don't know the statistics. I certainly don't think it's a better game. In my opinion GW2 stands head and shoulder above that boring, drab game. Yet that game got so much crazy marketing, you just couldn't avoid it even if you tried..

But then game stores struggle to sell games nowadays since many buy online, here in Nordic where I live, all GameStops had to shut down Thier stores , https://www.dagenshandel.se/article/view/691606/gamestop_stanger_alla_nordiska_butiker

[Dawdler.8521]

24 minutes ago, Robban.1256 said:

But then game stores struggle to sell games nowadays since many buy online, here in Nordic where I live, all GameStops had to shut down Thier stores , https://www.dagenshandel.se/article/view/691606/gamestop_stanger_alla_nordiska_butiker

Because we stopped using dedicated game stores over a decade ago and gamestop missed the memo. The last time I used one was to buy BF2142 because they had that Bofors rifle bonus.

Hell even the very use of physical media became pointless with the normalisation of the day 1 patch thats as big as the game itself sometimes.

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 hours ago, Healy.9537 said:

I feel kinda sad that gw2 seems to have been a bit overlooked during the wow mass exodus, most of them either jumped to ff or that new world game.

They really don't know what they are missing, a good chunk of general complaints about wow are next to non existant here. 

 

Marketing has never been a strong point for gw2 but you'd have thought they would have pushed the boat out in this circumstance.

 

GW2 didn't get overlooked by the WoW exodus.  There are WoW refugees everywhere, the forums/reddit are full of new player questions, and a bunch of WoW streamers made their way over here, too.

[Gibson.4036]

2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

GW2 didn't get overlooked by the WoW exodus.  There are WoW refugees everywhere, the forums/reddit are full of new player questions, and a bunch of WoW streamers made their way over here, too.

The likely cause for the recent uptick in new “why doesn’t this game fit my expectation of MMOs” posts.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Gibson.4036

[Abelisk.5148]

A lot of things make it not as popular. The story isn't the best one out there, art style is not everyone's cup of tea (a friend said it looks like what you get if going halfway between a cartoon and real life) and the gameplay is also not everyone's preference. In FFXIV Discords I'm in, I know a few people that said they really wanted some of the mounts but felt defeated after learning you can get them in the expansion not the base game. While you might say, "we used to not have mounts" you have to understand that some of these people wouldn't have come to GW2 if they didn't see mounts in the game.

[Moradorin.6217]

I feel like Vertical progression in gw2 is QoL upgrades, fashion options (vital), proof of competence (special titles & items). QoL like all Masterys, Full Legendary, all mounts, all portal scrolls, fractal savant-god, rank to have all skills in wvw, rank to open and run any fractal/cm, mounts to easily explore and complete various content. They are all things that still take time and dedication and for the most part cannot be purchased w gems, etc. At the same time a person can progress fine w correct stat exotics, a good build, and a little skill but its hard to argue they are at the same progress level as the veteran with full legendary (all types), mounts, etc. At least to me that seems like gw2's real progression that impacts/limits new players capabilities. The person with full Masteries, all mounts and full legendary can do any content any number of ways.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Moradorin.6217

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Abelisk.5148 said:

A lot of things make it not as popular. The story isn't the best one out there, art style is not everyone's cup of tea (a friend said it looks like what you get if going halfway between a cartoon and real life) and the gameplay is also not everyone's preference. In FFXIV Discords I'm in, I know a few people that said they really wanted some of the mounts but felt defeated after learning you can get them in the expansion not the base game. While you might say, "we used to not have mounts" you have to understand that some of these people wouldn't have come to GW2 if they didn't see mounts in the game.

It's a little weird to complain about a $30 expansion purchase to access features like mounts when you're playing a game that has a monthly subscription fee.  The entire purpose of having a free to play core game is to pull players in and get them to purchase the expansions.

[Abelisk.5148]

50 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's a little weird to complain about a $30 expansion purchase to access features like mounts when you're playing a game that has a monthly subscription fee.  The entire purpose of having a free to play core game is to pull players in and get them to purchase the expansions.

 

I'm not speaking for myself, just my friends. I don't even know if they play FFXIV anymore, there are lots of people in the Discords.

[Borked.6824]

Something more specific in line with the vertical progression track is the transition from leveling to endgame.  It's one of the only MMOs out there that once you hit 80, your daily routine doesn't change much, despite having years worth of content to do.  People love the leveling, but almost by grand design, there should be a moment of monumental levity once you're over the hump.  The literal feeling of achieving the endgame entry doesn't really exist, and it's very important to have.  The formula for GW2 endgame as well as leveling is spontaneity.  See opportunity here, do it.  See opportunity there do that.  No plan.  I love that aspect!  It's why I play.  But it does temper the would-be milestones to meet in an MMO.

I've recently been watching Staysafe stream GW2 (popular WoW streamer), who wholistically invested himself in GW2 and even committed to a bunch of long-term goals with EoD in mind while he was leveling.  He full-stopped playing the game less than a week after hitting level cap, and I'm pretty sure the above is the reason.  His influence for this game would have been huge in time, but he seemed to have been stricken by something epidemic to the game's grasp on people.

[xoxin.8326]

23 hours ago, Moradorin.6217 said:

I feel like Vertical progression in gw2 is QoL upgrades, fashion options (vital), proof of competence (special titles & items). QoL like all Masterys, Full Legendary, all mounts, all portal scrolls, fractal savant-god, rank to have all skills in wvw, rank to open and run any fractal/cm, mounts to easily explore and complete various content.

I think you're mixing the two. Vertical progression is about character power. Horizontal is pretty much everything else - opening up options, getting more utility/QoL, ect.

 

For example: Acquiring gear which gives you 10 more strength is vertical. Earning gear which unlocks another appearance or allows you to teleport to a capital city would be horizontal. 

[Genesis.5169]

The community is known to be awful hence many people stay away.

[Gibson.4036]

6 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

The community is known to be awful hence many people stay away.

That is the complete opposite of my experience. These forums aside, I find the community of GW2 to be the most helpful and least toxic of any MMO I’ve played.

[AliamRationem.5172]

6 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

The community is known to be awful hence many people stay away.

I'm guessing you don't play any other online games?  This one is just laughable.

[lezbefriends.7516]

8 hours ago, Genesis.5169 said:

The community is known to be awful hence many people stay away.

Um, what? This is one time the confused smiley is warranted.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Mortifera.6138